WHY SOLA SCRIPTURA MAKES SENSE - A REBUTTAL

[Paul James]

You said that their mind was in a state of absolute certainty with no doubt. Personally I don't see any need for the white-throne judgment because it seems to me you already read minds well enough to judge the world. At least you seem to think so.

You are getting close to flaming here, and that weakens your position.

 

[JAL]

What do you think my earlier posts to you said when I stated in post # 99 and elsewhere and the OP that before the written word was the spoken word of God as shown in GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). This is why it is written of ABRAHAM in GENESIS 26:6 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. This was shared with you already. I suggest you read HEBREWS 11 that show God's people have always been saved in exactly the same way and that is by faith and we already know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God ROMANS 10:17.

Sorry dear friend seems like God's Word disagrees with you.

No clearly it disagrees with you. Paul said we are all saved by the same faith as Abraham - who didn't have the written Word!

He only had the spoken divine Word!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Actually you and I have no direct access to the written Word - only man-tainted versions and your own fallible intepretations.

Where do you learn Hebrew and Greek? From a man-made lexicon. Really? This is the best God could do? He left us with man-tainted material?

And you do realize how exegesis works, right? Exegesis consists of proofs (trying to prove what Scripture does, or does not say). All proofs are based on assumptions that in turn need to be proven. This leads to an infinite regress of unproven assumptions. The only way to break out of the infinite loop is to simply STIPULATE some man-made assumptions. Again, this dooms us to a man-tainted process.

To summarize, you have no direct access to the written Word, only to man-tainted versions of it. That's why you need Direct Revelation.

I think what you do not understand is that only God can teach you his Word and he promises to do so *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 8:31-32 and 1 JOHN 2:27; HEBREWS 8:11. Why do you not believe Gods' Word?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No clearly it disagrees with you. Paul said we are all saved by the same faith as Abraham - who didn't have the written Word!
He only had the spoken divine Word!

Not really your leaving out cherry picking scripture as it is also written FAITH comes by hearing and heaing by the WORD OF GOD. If you have no faith in God's Word there is no salvation dear friend only sin *ROMANS 14:23.

 

[JAL]

You are getting close to flaming here, and that weakens your position.

Your claim to know what is in the heart of Benny Hin is a pretense of mind-reading and it is preposterous. Period.

And it isn't relevant to the debate. Even if you were right, what does it establish? If they did feel 100% certain of their so-called revelations, they had every right to assert them, in accordance with the maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B"

Like everyone else, you cannot find one scenario that calls for departing from that maxim.

 

[Paul James]

I didn't insinuate that Scripture itself is tainted. I insinuated that exegesis gives you access only to man-tainted versions of it, and I gave you clear explanations what I meant by that, which you cannot refute.


Um...and yes it does carry weight. Jesus was a PROPHET and thus understood scripture by DIRECT REVELATION and thus without the man-made taint. That's my whole point, isn't it?

When the resurrected Jesus showed the two disciples at Emmaeus all the Old Testament references to Himself, He didn't use direct revelation, He just showed them through the Scriptures themselves and pointed to what was actually written there about Himself.

 

[JAL]

I think what you do not understand is that only God can teach you his Word and he promises to do so *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 8:31-32 and 1 JOHN 2:27; HEBREWS 8:11. Why do you not believe Gods' Word?

Correct. The divine Voice - the voice of Direct Revelation - is the help we need to properly understand the written Word. Not sure why it's taken you 125 posts to concede my position.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your claim to know what is in the heart of Benny Hin is a pretense of mind-reading and it is preposterous. Period.

And it isn't relevant to the debate. Even if you were right, what does it establish? If they did feel 100% certain of their so-called revelations, they had every right to assert them, in accordance with the maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B"

Like everyone else, you cannot find one scenario that calls for departing from that maxim.

Here is an idea why don't you address the OP that refutes your teachings through the scriptures. If you cannot why do you not believe Gods' Word?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Correct. The divine Voice - the voice of Direct Revelation - is the help we need to properly understand the written Word. Not sure why it's taken you 125 posts to concede my position.

I have not conceded anything with you. I have only shared the scriptures with you that shows why your position is in error. You cannot have salvation without Gods' Word and Spirit to guide and teach you. As posted earlier God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *JOHN 6:63. God's Spirit works through the Word of God not outside of it or opposed to it. I am not sure why it has taken you 129 posts to realise this as you should have realised this when the OP was made that disagrees with you.

 

[JAL]

When the resurrected Jesus showed the two disciples at Emmaeus all the Old Testament references to Himself, He didn't use direct revelation, He just showed them through the Scriptures themselves and pointed to what was actually written there about Himself.

I guffawed at that one. And now I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Has the Sola Scriptura movement really blinded you to the the extent that you cannot see the obvious?

Listen to what you just described. You just referred to the Lord Jesus Christ standing face to face with men, VERBALLY AND VOCALLY EXPLAINING the Scriptures to them (instead of sending them off to a seminary library so they figure it out for themselves). And you say that's NOT Direct Revelation? That's one of the clearest examples of Direct Revelation in the entire Bible !!!

 

[Paul James]

No clearly it disagrees with you. Paul said we are all saved by the same faith as Abraham - who didn't have the written Word!

He only had the spoken divine Word!

We don't really know that. Seeing that handwriting existed well before his time, he would have had written material that would have led him to the realisation that the Person who was speaking to Him was God. And we wouldn't have known about Abraham if Moses had not have written all down in Genesis as a literal historical record.

 

[Paul James]

I guffawed at that one. And now I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Has the Sola Scriptura movement really blinded you to the the extent that you cannot see the obvious?

Listen to what you just described. You just referred to the Lord Jesus Christ standing face to face with men, VERBALLY AND VOCALLY EXPLAINING the Scriptures to them (instead of sending them off to a seminary library so they figure it out for themselves). And you say that's NOT Direct Revelation? That's one of the clearest examples of Direct Revelation in the entire Bible !!!

No that is not direct revelation. It is exegesis and hermeneutics which is solidly based as the "science" of Biblical interpretation.

 

[Paul James]

I guffawed at that one. And now I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Has the Sola Scriptura movement really blinded you to the the extent that you cannot see the obvious?

Flaming again! This conversation is quickly drawing to a close!

 

[JAL]

All of us are somewhat blinded by indoctrination. That's why need Direct Revelation to cut through all our tainted perspectives.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What I find amazing is some people try to deny Gods' Word stating "direct revelation" supersedes the Word of God (the scriptures) when the scriptures teach no such thing. That is not to say there is no divine revelations there surely is (prophets) but we are told to test the spirits wheather they are of God or not through the Word of God.

As shown earlier, before the written word was the spoken word of God as shown in GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). This is why it is written of ABRAHAM in GENESIS 26:6 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. HEBREWS 11 shows that God's people have always been saved in exactly the same way and that is by faith whether by the Spoken word which was before the written Word of by the written Word. Today we have the written Word of God to test devine revelation.

We already know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God ROMANS 10:17. Why do you not believe the scriptures?

May God bless you all as you seek him through his Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

All of us are somewhat blinded by indoctrination. That's why need Direct Revelation to cut through all our tainted perspectives.

Indeed, your pushing Catholic doctrines that are not biblical are you not? Can't cut through the scriptures dear friend they are the light that reveals darkness *JOHN 3:16-21.

 

[JAL]

No that is not direct revelation. It is exegesis and hermeneutics which is solidly based as the "science" of Biblical interpretation.

Sorry. If the Lord Jesus speaks to me face to face telling me the meanings of verses, that's a lot different than me sitting in a library with a concordance and a Lexicon trying to figure it all out myself. Clearly, that's Direct Revelation.

But you want to say that's called exegesis? Fine. Call it whatever you want. Either way, you're now corroborating my claim that we need Jesus to speak to us the meanings of the verses. I call it Direct Revelation, but you can use whatever term you like.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

@JAL Out of curiosity, what if someone's direct revelation contradicts yours? And how would you go about proving that yours was the true revelation?

 

[JAL]

Indeed, your pushing Catholic doctrines that are not biblical are you not? Can't cut through the scriptures dear friend they are the light that reveals darkness *JOHN 3:16-21.

Making random, baseless associations between me and some denomination is dishonest debating. Furthermore, all mainstream Christians have some beliefs in common, so you believe in Catholic doctrines too.

 

[JAL]

I have not conceded anything with you. I have only shared with scripture with you that shows why your position is in error. You cannot have salvation without Gods' Word and Spirit to guide and teach you. As posted earlier God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *JOHN 6:63. God's Spirit works through the Word of God not outside of it or opposed to it. I am not sure why it has taken you 129 posts to realise this as you should have realised this when the OP was made that disagrees with you.

Right, you're a moving target. When it conveniently suits you in this debate, the Word means His spoken Word. Otherwise it means His written Word. That's why this conversation is waxing old.