Why so much animosity on the US Far-Right against immigrants??

[Raphael Jauregui]

I have to say that I am disheartened and constantly disturbed by the negative rhetoric against immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, that I am seeing in the US and other countries as well. As a Christian, I believe in loving your neighbour as yourself. That means we should love our immigrant neighbour too. How can so many people want to separate families, deport people who have committed no crime, and build walls that would divide cities and destroy the environment? Xenophobia is a sin and we need to call it out.

So, I'm going to have to agree with Pope Francis on this one. Building walls like this is not right.
Pope Francis to Trump: Building Mexico Wall 'Not Christian'

 

[Saucy]

You'd have to see it from our perspective to understand. Some people just see an undocumented immigrant and thinks "Bless their soul. They have nothing and they're just coming here for a better life."

It's made to sound like we hate immigrants. No, all of our families were immigrants. We're completely for legal immigration. If you want to come to this country, then you need to do it the right way. Trump talked about putting a huge (symbolic) door on the wall for those who want to come in legally.

You can't cut the line and not follow our laws and expect a free ride. But a free ride is what they get.

We spend on average $113 BILLION per year taking care of illegal immigrants. We give them free housing, free food, free healthcare, free education, they get free access to all amenities like police and fire, it's easier to get welfare and there are other subsidies. We give them special grants only minorities can get.

When you have as many as 20 million illegals here, it's putting a massive burden on our infrastructure. People claim, "Well, they do the jobs no one else wants to do and get paid less for it."

Not exactly.

They don't have to pay taxes because they're undocumented. So, not only are they NOT chipping in, we give them all that free stuff. A legal American will have to pay taxes. They don't get government assistance just because they're illegal. They don't get free healthcare or rent.

And what Trump said was absolutely true. They are bringing in crimes and drugs. They are raping and kidnapping women and children. They are fueling the gang violence, as most gangsters, especially in the south, are Hispanic.

the thing is, you don't know who's coming across the border. You don't know what they're trying to smuggle in or take out with them. They take advantage of our system, making it harder for legal or natural-born Americans to get work, drain our resources, and costing us hundreds of billions of dollars.

Oh, and it's not just a republican thing. The democrats, including Obama and Clinton, have proposed the same type of stricter regulations and even a fence along the border. Only for the democrats this time, they get to sit and accuse Trump of being a racist for effectively saying the same things they said during their own terms. No one called Obama or Clinton a racist or questioned their Christian values for wanting to tighten the border.

 

[BobRyan]

I have to say that I am disheartened and constantly disturbed by the negative rhetoric against immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, that I am seeing in the US and other countries as well. As a Christian, I believe in loving your neighbour as yourself. That means we should love our immigrant neighbour too. How can so many people want to separate families, deport people who have committed no crime, and build walls that would divide cities and destroy the environment? Xenophobia is a sin and we need to call it out.

So, I'm going to have to agree with Pope Francis on this one. Building walls like this is not right.
Pope Francis to Trump: Building Mexico Wall 'Not Christian'

IT is fake news.

The "right" , the conservatives in America welcome immigration.

But it was NEVER the case that in America "wall climbing" was some accepted form of legal immigration.

Those who equivocate between crime and immigration in the U.S News and media - are not paying close attention to either one.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

IT is fake news.

The "right" , the conservatives in America welcome immigration.

But it was NEVER the case that in America "wall climbing" was some accepted form of legal immigration.

Those who equivocate between crime and immigration in the U.S News and media - are not paying close attention to either one.

What is fake news exactly? I have seen people say negative things about immigrants. I have been yelled at myself, although I am not an immigrant, by someone assuming that I am an an 'illegal' as they said. So, yes, I have seen and witnessed the xenophobia.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

It's not immigrants the country doesn't want, it is ILLEGAL ones. You know it is like starting a relationship while having an affair at the same time. They are breaking trust with the laws of the country they are trying to enter.

Then to top it off they want all the benefits of being a citizen while having no legal right to be here in the first place. What kind of lunacy is that?

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

It's not immigrants the country doesn't want, it is ILLEGAL ones. You know it is like starting a relationship while having an affair at the same time. They are breaking trust with the laws of the country they are trying to enter.

Then to top it off they want all the benefits of being a citizen while having no legal right to be here in the first place. What kind of lunacy is that?

Nobody is 'illegal' actually and only an immigration court can determine someone to be here illegally. Nomenclature is important and, unfortunately, people seem to be confused about what the process is to determine if someone is here illegally. Again, only an immigration court can make that determination. We have due process here.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Nobody is 'illegal' actually and only an immigration court can determine someone to be here illegally. Nomenclature is important and, unfortunately, people seem to be confused about what the process is to determine if someone is here illegally. Again, only an immigration court can make that determination. We have due process here.

Do you know what illegal means?

It means "outside the law"

So when someone enters any country outside the limitations of that country's immigration laws it does in fact make them illegal.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Do you know what illegal means?

It means "outside the law"

So when someone enters any country outside the limitations of that country's immigration laws it does in fact make them illegal.

The condescension feigned as a question aside, I will repeat. Only an immigration court can determine if someone is here illegally. We believe in a due process and rule of law in this country. An angry mob of xenophobic people do not get to label someone 'illegal.' We have a process for reviewing each person's case. Showing hatred, calling names, or making assumptions is not right. Furthermore, speaking from experience, as I said, I have heard people call Americans 'illegal' just for being of another ethnicity or for not agreeing with their position.
Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily - CNNPolitics.com

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The condescension feigned as a question aside, I will repeat. Only an immigration court can determine if someone is here illegally. We believe in a due process and rule of law in this country. An angry mob of xenophobic people do not get to label someone 'illegal.'
Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily - CNNPolitics.com

Exactly! "The rule of law". What are laws for then? How can you claim to be for the "rule of law" while giving a pass to those who break the law?

 

[tstor]

Only an immigration court can determine if someone is here illegally.

No. Only immigration courts can do something about it. That does not mean the person is not here illegally. Someone who is caught red-handed murdering an individual is doing an illegal act despite there not being a court hearing.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Exactly! "The rule of law". What are laws for then? How can you claim to be for the "rule of law" while giving a pass to those who break the law?

It is not up to you or to me to decide who is and who is not here illegally. That is something only an immigration court can do. That is part of the rule of law. How can you claim to support the rule of law and call people illegals when you don't know them or if a court has said that? C'mon now. We are to love our neighbours and recognise the image of God in them. If an immigration court makes a determination, that's up to the court. That's not up to you.

 

[BobRyan]

What is fake news exactly? I have seen people say negative things about immigrants. I have been yelled at myself, although I am not an immigrant, by someone assuming that I am an an 'illegal' as they said. So, yes, I have seen and witnessed the xenophobia.

I am married to an immigrant and the whole family knows this is all fake news. I work with a lot of legal immigrants and have done so in multiple companies for decades. I have hired foreign nationals and worked to continue the process of their remaining as legal immigrants pursuing citizenship in the U.S. There is nothing "new" there.

Legal immigration happens all the time - and those who wish to equivocate between crime and legal immigration as if they are all the same thing - don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

Fake news media takes advantage of that to stir up strife across the board. Who then is such a surface reader as to be taken in by the fake news??

 

[BobRyan]

Nobody is 'illegal' actually and only an immigration court can determine someone to be here illegally. Nomenclature is important and, unfortunately, people seem to be confused about what the process is to determine if someone is here illegally. Again, only an immigration court can make that determination. We have due process here.

Nonsense. The illegal immigrants know they are illegally in the country -- so does any police officer that can read a calendar and can read the papers the person is holding. This is not the "hard part".

"What to do about it" is up to the court system case by case.

Now back to "details matter" notice that your OP speaks of "immigrants" but now you bait-and-switch over to the subject of crime, criminal activity, entering or remaining in the country illegally. As IF -- legal immigration and crime are the same thing.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice" what you are doing in that respect?

What country on planet earth has citizens that do not recognize the "problems" that can arise from illegal immigration practices???

 

[pat34lee]

I have to say that I am disheartened and constantly disturbed by the negative rhetoric against immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants,

Maybe that is because you chose the wrong words to describe them? They are ILLEGAL aliens. Just the fact that they either snuck in illegally or overstayed their visas means they are breaking the law. Every day that they stay.

Should we care that some have ONLY broken immigration laws and are not felons? No. We have our own citizens who need jobs or other help. We don't need to take in Mexico's indigent people, or Cuba's, Haiti's or Syria's.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Maybe that is because you chose the wrong words to describe them? They are ILLEGAL aliens. Just the fact that they either snuck in illegally or overstayed their visas means they are breaking the law. Every day that they stay.

Should we care that some have ONLY broken immigration laws and are not felons? No. We have our own citizens who need jobs or other help. We don't need to take in Mexico's indigent people, or Cuba's, Haiti's or Syria's.

No, that is not the correct word to use. Only an immigration court can determine if someone is here illegally. That's a very specific legal issue. Undocumented immigrants is the correct word for those who have not yet been given any kind of status or label by an immigration court. Also, not all undocumented immigrants come here voluntarily and, therefore, they did not break any laws. For example, many are brought here as kids by parents, guardians, or someone else. They did not choose to come. They did not break any laws. Where is the compassion for them?

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Maybe that is because you chose the wrong words to describe them? They are ILLEGAL aliens. Just the fact that they either snuck in illegally or overstayed their visas means they are breaking the law. Every day that they stay.

Should we care that some have ONLY broken immigration laws and are not felons? No. We have our own citizens who need jobs or other help. We don't need to take in Mexico's indigent people, or Cuba's, Haiti's or Syria's.

For people who want to focus on legality, you don't want to use legally correct language.

 

[Sketcher]

There's a lot less animosity for those who came over legally as opposed to those who intentionally did not. It's a matter of playing by the rules and enforcing the law. If we saw more of that, we would see fewer crimes perpetrated by illegals. That is a serious moral matter, as failing to enforce the law enables the drug trafficking, human trafficking, murder, and so forth. There is also the matter of public health, which is another moral issue. Part of immigration law is to screen out people carrying infectious diseases from outside the country. When the law is not followed, infected people are not screened out. A position of tight enforcement is the most consistent with the pro-vaccine position. Yet many on the left will scream about the importance of vaccination while resisting the notion of enforcing immigration law. I find that to be a very inconsistent position.

 

[BobRyan]

I have to say that I am disheartened and constantly disturbed by the negative rhetoric against immigrants,

There is the bait - regarding legal immigration

now for the switch

especially undocumented immigrants,

Crime.

 

[JudyH]

This is way more complicated than many people want to believe. I am married to an immigration lawyer, and I'm the office manager and legal assistant. There are reasons people become illegal through no fault of their own (government delays in processing applications, for instance). It's not simply the case that they sneak across the border and therefore have no right to be here. Many of them are trying to do it legally and run into huge piles of bureaucratic nonsense. But Congress has blocked immigration reform for years. And if the objection is that they're "illegal," why is it so hard to find a way for them to rectify the problem and become legal? But anything other than deportation is considered "amnesty," and Republicans won't allow it.

People say things like "They need to come here legally," and "They need to get in line." Well, for many of them, there is no way to come here legally, there is no line for them to get into.

Some of those who are here illegally came on legitimate tourist or treaty trader visas and overstayed. Some of those came from favored countries such as those in Europe. Do we want them to receive the same harsh treatment that Mexicans who sneak across the border get? Do we feel as strongly about an illegal Brit or Australian as we do about an illegal Mexican?

It's not true that they come and take advantage of public welfare programs, or that they don't pay taxes. It may be true for some, but not all. In fact, many do pay taxes and pay into programs like Social Security that they will never be able to take advantage of. Also, they benefit local economies by buying things, paying rent, paying local taxes, etc. Their children do get access to public education, but other than that they do not usually use public programs.

Also, a very small percentage of illegal aliens are criminals. But our current government wants to make them all into criminals.

Also, many of the documents that would prove legal immigration are inscrutable to the average cop. It's ridiculous to think that cops should be able to pull someone over and ask for their papers to see if they're legal. There is no single document that proves they're legal.

The problem is too much black and white thinking. We need to find ways to fix this broken system so more people can come here legally and those who are here illegally can make it right. Throwing all the bums out because they're criminals is not the answer.

 

[BobRyan]

This is way more complicated than many people want to believe. I am married to an immigration lawyer, and I'm the office manager and legal assistant. There are reasons people become illegal through no fault of their own (government delays in processing applications, for instance).

The question of whether one is an illegal alien is easy as stated before in my post. What to do about it case-by-case is another matter and a court would need to decide it.

Let's take the most benign case of illegal status as you have given. EVEN in that case we do not want "MORE illegal immigration status" we do not want "MORE government delay resulting in accidental/side-effect illegal immigration status". There is NO case where we want MORE situations that result in illegal immigrant status be it crime on the part of the would-be-immigrant or incompetent process on the part of government. Nor do we want the current illegal immigrant status to remain unresovled - deport those engaged in criminal immigration and resolve the status for this in 'incidental' status where government "inept process" of an existing legal immigration has resulted in "illegal status".

It IS the case that millions sneak across the border and therefore have no right to be here. That is one way the illegal immigrant status can be had.

Many of them are trying to do it legally and run into huge piles of bureaucratic nonsense.

In which case the fight against illegal immigrant status would lead to review and improvement of the process.

In NO case is the answer "do not oppose illegal immigration"