Why so many denominations?

[Bill McEnaney]

That is basically the Lutheran position on Apostolic Succession. It's not the people involved that matter. It's the message that matters.

Scripture Catholic - APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY AND SUCCESSION

 

[Archie the Preacher]

In response to the initial question:

There are so many different kinds of people.

Casual, formal, emotional, strictly rational, rich, poor, fat, thin, vegetarians, carnivores, omnivores, political liberals, strictly rational, warriors, pacifists and so on. Most humans prefer to associate with those who are most similar (and that depends on the 'similarity' one finds most meaningful.)

Paul hinted at it when he said "I have become all things to all people, so that by all means I may save some."

 

[Albion]

In response to the initial question:

There are so many different kinds of people.

Casual, formal, emotional, strictly rational, rich, poor, fat, thin, vegetarians, carnivores, omnivores, political liberals, strictly rational, warriors, pacifists and so on. Most humans prefer to associate with those who are most similar (and that depends on the 'similarity' one finds most meaningful.)

Paul hinted at it when he said "I have become all things to all people, so that by all means I may save some."

That may account for why there are so many different bowling leagues; I don't really think it accounts for the great number of different religious denominations.

 

[barryatlake]

Why so many denominations ?

Because Protestants go against the very Holy Bible that they use as their sole rule for salvation, Don't believe it, then why do you go against this:

"This, then, you must understand first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is made by private interpretation '' [ 2 Peter 1:20 ]. This is the reason Jesus left us with an authoritative "church' and then that "church' compiled the Books [ correct Canonical Books ] that we have all accepted by that very same Apostolic Catholic Church.

 

[Albion]

Why so many denominations ?

Because Protestants go against the very Holy Bible that they use as their sole rule for salvation, Don't believe it....

So how do you account for the Eastern Orthodox, Old Catholics, Liberal Catholic Church, Assyrian, Nestorian, Armenian, Oriental Orthodox, and all the other CATHOLIC denominations?

Oh, I remember. You pretend they don't exist or that they must be Protestants if they do.

 

[barryatlake]

Albion, the only Catholic Church is one that comes directly down through the centuries from Jesus via His Apostles with the same tenets/teachings of Christianity. Protestantism is a cafeteria -type religion, as in take what you want and leave the rest. God said He wants 'Unity" Protestantism is the furthest thing from" Unity".

 

[ebia]

Albion, the only Catholic Church is one that comes directly down through the centuries from Jesus via His Apostles with the same tenets/teachings of Christianity. Protestantism is a cafeteria -type religion, as in take what you want and leave the rest. God said He wants 'Unity" Protestantism is the furthest thing from" Unity".

Anyone can say "our group has unity" by discounting everyone outside their cohesive group. To say "Catholics are unified and Protestants are not" is to define the question so you get the right answer. What Jesus demands is that all his followers be unified. Until that happens again all the subgroups are failing. Even the RCC has recognised this since at least VII

 

[barryatlake]

ebia, but God is saying that He wants only his Church to be "united" and Authoritative not any man-made non-Apostolic/Catholic church. Again I refer you to [ Luke 10: 16 and to show that His "church'' is the only "church" that Jesus was speaking about , read [ Mt.18: 15-18 ] All Protestant /non-Apostolic churches were not invented until hundreds of years later.

 

[ebia]

ebia, but God is saying that He wants only his Church to be "united" and Authoritative not any man-made non-Apostolic/Catholic church. Again I refer you to [ Luke 10: 16 and to show that His "church'' is the only "church" that Jesus was speaking about , read [ Mt.18: 15-18 ] All Protestant /non-Apostolic churches were not invented until hundreds of years later.

You're begging the question of what is "his church", of what stream, if any, is the proper one in continuity.

 

[barryatlake]

ebia, wrong, all I need to know for my salvation is to follow Jesus through the only 'church' that He left for us, and I do know that church was base/formed on his apostles /successors, as the Holy Bible tells us - Mt. 28: 18-20.

 

[ebia]

ebia, wrong, all I need to know for my salvation is to follow Jesus through the only 'church' that He left for us, and I do know that church was base/formed on his apostles /successors, as the Holy Bible tells us - Mt. 28: 18-20.

You are begging the question; that "the church" in Mt 28 is identical to the RCC in the 21st century.

Until you get that you're not going to persuade anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

 

[barryatlake]

ebia, not me, the Holy Spirit can only lead you to Christ's Apostolic Church, all I attempt is to defend it from the false claims from its enemies.

 

[ebia]

ebia, not me, the Holy Spirit can only lead you to Christ's Apostolic Church, all I attempt is to defend it from the false claims from its enemies.

"we right because we say we are the right ones" is not an effective defense. A defensive argument that doesn't persuade is not a defence, it's just verbal wall-paper.

 

[barryatlake]

ebia, as I said, I can only make my 'attempt' at defending the Catholic Church from ignorance, lies and exaggerated facts. It may be that I am not very successful in my attempt but nonetheless, I must try. I can't stop you or anybody else from following your individual religious beliefs. I have to believe something myself very positively before I think that ebia or any other non-Catholic that is totally misguided, wrong, and adhering to pernicious beliefs would take me serious. I will not give up because of my limitations with persuasiveness.I refuse to watch people also persecute His Church. They persecuted our Lord, now they want to persecute His Church.
Catholic Christianity is the same as any other truth, insofar as it is truth. It demands authority and an adherence to rules, as Jesus commanded with His Apostles and they their successors [ Luke 10:16, Mt 28: 18-20 ].
If I am studying geometry and want to get very far, I shall have to submit to the geometrical principles. I have to agree , for instance , that two parallel lines will not intersect, even when taken to infinity. If I am not prepared to believe this, then I have no business saying that I believe in geometry. Once having accepted it, I am not free to go on the assumption that I may, after all, find parallel lines intersecting occasionally. I must have one or the other. Anyone who tells me that it is possible to accept both propositions -- that they are both equally true--- is hardly doing me a service. By following their advice, I shall make a mess out of geometry. Unfortunately many people have been accepting this misleading advice from mere- man doing the same thing with Christianity since the Protestant Reformation.

 

[Albion]

Albion, the only Catholic Church is one that comes directly down through the centuries from Jesus via His Apostles with the same tenets/teachings of Christianity.

In that case, the church I prefer is the only real Protestant church--by my decree--and you can no longer claim that there are thousands of Protestant churches in disagreement with each other since all the other contenders are phonies and don't count.

Convincing huh? It ought to be, considering that that's all you're telling me.

 

[barryatlake]

Albion, tell me, does history [ Jewish, Islamic, Secular. Christian meaning both Catholic and some Protestant main-line archives ] show that your particular Protestant church can verify Apostolic Succession from the Apostles via Jesus ? Please show your documentation on this.

 

[ebia]

ebia, as I said, I can only make my 'attempt' at defending the Catholic Church from ignorance, lies and exaggerated facts.

I didn't say any of that.

I'm pointing out that for an argument to stand a chance of success it has to make sense to its intended audience; it needs to start from their assumptions (if only to challenge them) not yours.

 

[ebia]

Albion, tell me, does history [ Jewish, Islamic, Secular. Christian meaning both Catholic and some Protestant main-line archives ] show that your particular Protestant church can verify Apostolic Succession from the Apostles via Jesus ? Please show your documentation on this.

Since Anglican Bishops and Roman Bishops shared the same heritage until the Tudor years it's trivially true that if the bishop of Rome can trace a line so can the bishop of Canterbury.

The RCC claim is that somehow Anglican episcopal succession lost its validity (though the reasoning for how is so incoherent as to make it obvious that the claim has more to do with polemics and desired conclusion than having a conclusion follow from the facts), not that there isn't a traceable line.

 

[barryatlake]

ebia, prove it.

 

[ebia]

ebia, prove it.

What for - nobody remotely informed, including those inside the RCC, disputes that. Do you think Archbishop Cranmer etc sprang out of nowhere?