Why so many denominations?

DarylFawcett

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I don't know if this question was ever asked and if this is even the most appropriate place to ask it.

Why are there so many denominations that seem to believe something from the Bible that in some instances contradicts the beliefs of one or more denominations with the beliefs of one or more other denominations?
 

CryptoLutheran

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Because people don't always agree with each other. There has always been sectarianism in Christianity, even during the Apostolic era.

Let's say Bob and George attend the same church, Bob and George then find an issue they disagree about, Bob's position is what his church says and George argues that their church is wrong. So George decides that in order to be more true to the Bible he has to start a new church.

Voila, a new denomination is born. Though, keep in mind, the term "denomination" is only accurate when describing Protestant groups. A more fitting term including all branches of Christianity would be "theological tradition" or "communion". For example the Old Catholic Churches (also called Ultrajectine) which departed from the Roman Catholic Church in the 19th century are not Protestant and are therefore not a denomination or set of denominations, but rather a distinct family of churches. What these distinct church bodies have in common is their rejection of Papal Infallibility as defined int he First Vatican Council. They could be described as a branch of Christianity, or a theological tradition, though it may not be wholly accurate to call them "denominations" since that term is usually limited to those church bodies which share some explicit or implicit connection with the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dark_Lite

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I don't know if this question was ever asked and if this is even the most appropriate place to ask it.

Why are there so many denominations that seem to believe something from the Bible that in some instances contradicts the beliefs of one or more denominations with the beliefs of one or more other denominations?

Because the Reformation opened the floodgates for anyone and everyone to pick and choose what bits of historical Christianity they wanted to adhere to, or in some cases, just make up new stuff. Schisms existed before that, but they were nothing like what came after the Reformation.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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I don't know if this question was ever asked and if this is even the most appropriate place to ask it.

Why are there so many denominations that seem to believe something from the Bible that in some instances contradicts the beliefs of one or more denominations with the beliefs of one or more other denominations?


Not an easy question....

I guess one could ask, why are there so many different kinds of restaurants and automobiles? Why doesn't everyone live in San Diego (although I SURE don't want them to, I wish a LOT would leave!)? Why are their two political parties in the USA and a couple of zillion in France?


Some thoughts.....


1. MUCH of the "answer" lies in HISTORY. Until very recently, life was very regional. People were born, lived and died within just a few miles. UNDERSTANDABLY, culture, customs, traditions, songs, and yes ideas developed that were'nt always IDENTICAL everywhere. Not so surprising.... In the USA for example, there were once over a dozen different large Lutheran denominations - even thought theologically there wasn't a nickel's difference. But in just the 200-300 years since Luther, Lutheranism developed differently in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the various areas and principalities of German, in Slovakia, even England and Iceland. And there were different forms even in the same country. There were "high" Lutherans and "low" Lutherans, those that followed "pietism" and those that didn't. Their local church reflected all this. As they moved to the USA - they brought all that with them. Today, over 100-150 years after the big immigration of Lutherans, there are two main Lutheran denominations - still SOMEWHAT cultural in difference (German vs. Scandinavian) but MOSTLY alone the "liberal/conservative" line that we see happening in most Protestant USA denominations.


2. Unlike in the OOC, EOC, RCC and LDS - in Protestantism, there is an embrace of the church as US - the whole body of believers, spread out over all the continents and centuries. Protestants don't regard our denominations as "THE CHURCH" in any sense. For us, denominations are FREE ASSOCIATIONS of congregations, congregations that associate together for many purposes: cooperation, mutual support, accountability, edification - a LOT of reasons. Sometimes, a congregation may feel this associatation isn't "working" or just isn't best. USUALLY, leaving is permissible (depends on some legal issues - and whether property belongs to the congregation or denomination). The easier it is to disassociate, probably the more likely some will do that. There is a rather constant flow of congregations (or more likely groups of persons therein) all the time - especially in the USA where we have much ENORMOUS diversity available. But they also can choose to form a new association (rather than join one already in existence) - and thus, a new denomination is formed. Denominations are born (and die - and merge) quite regularly in the USA. While NO ONE considers this willy-nilly, NOR to PROTESTANTS take this as a huge theological thing. This is not the church, this is OUR free associations. Jesus never founded ANY denomination, Jesus neither promoted or condemned them, they are OUR invention to help US do the ministry He gave us to do.


4. There has NEVER been agreement on what MUST be believed. Not in 2000 years! Think of the problem we've had at CF just determining what is and isn't a "Christian" (we gave up, and decided to change the question - who is and isn't in agreement with the Nicene Creed?"). Deciding what IS truth and what MUST be accepted as much has NEVER been universally determined - and we STILL seem far from that. One denomination may decided that accepting male-only ordination is NECESSARY for membership in that demonimnation. Another may say that accepting female ordination is necessary. Another may not say anything on that at all. You've just created 3 entirely different groups of denominations - on just ONE of literally hundreds of different issues. It's one thing to say, "we hold to these beliefs and practices." I respect that. Even honor that! It's another to say, "ERGO, we are Christians and you are heretical pagans!" THAT causes me a LOT of discomfort.... I don't agree with the RCC on some things, BUT I regard Catholics as my FULL, Unseparated, and in every possible sense EQUAL and equally blessed brothers and sisters in Christ, with whom I'll be spending eternity in heaven. Are we in the same denomination? No. That changes nothing I said. But then I'm Protestant, I can hold to that position.




MY half cent.


Pax


- Josiah





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CaliforniaJosiah

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Because the Reformation opened the floodgates for anyone and everyone to pick and choose what bits of historical Christianity they wanted to adhere to, or in some cases, just make up new stuff. Schisms existed before that, but they were nothing like what came after the Reformation.


... and attitudes like that is another reason.





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JackKerouac

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Dark_Lite said:
Because the Reformation opened the floodgates for anyone and everyone to pick and choose what bits of historical Christianity they wanted to adhere to, or in some cases, just make up new stuff. Schisms existed before that, but they were nothing like what came after the Reformation.

Yeah, those pesky Reformers...teaching us that we can communicate and fellowship directly with God through Jesus and that we can (and have the responsibility to) read Scripture for ourselves and gain understanding through the Holy Spirit. What were THEY thinking?!?
 
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Dark_Lite

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JackKerouac said:
Yeah, those pesky Reformers...teaching us that we can communicate and fellowship directly with God through Jesus and that we can (and have the responsibility to) read Scripture for ourselves and gain understanding through the Holy Spirit. What were THEY thinking?!?

History speaks for itself.

Before the Reformation, there were two major schisms that persisted: Oriental Orthodox and Orthodox. All others were supprress and fixed. In the West there was the Western Schism in the middle ages. There were also a host of heretical groups throughout the ages: various Gnostic groups, donatists, etc. After and since the Reformation, we now have Lutherans, Baptists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Quakers, Methodists, Seventh Day Adventists, "Non Denominational", Wesleyans, United Church of Christ, Pentecostal, Word of Faith, and more. There are also now very unorthodox groups with no basis in history like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnessses, Clans Christadelphians.

All of the groups listed here have contradicting beliefs on one or more major issues. All of them are "read[ing] Scripture ... and gain understanding through the Holy Spirit." The Reformation was about political change as much as it was about theological change. Religion in general did not have the power it once did. It made schisming over disagreement OK and sparked the events that would remove the power of the Churches to deal with such schisms (that mostly came around the Enlightenment).
 
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Johnny Todd

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I don't know if this question was ever asked and if this is even the most appropriate place to ask it.

Why are there so many denominations that seem to believe something from the Bible that in some instances contradicts the beliefs of one or more denominations with the beliefs of one or more other denominations?
Its because of false teachers and false prophets! we were told they would infiltrate the flock, appearing as sheep but actually being wolves (see 2 Peter 2)
 
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abysmul

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power/control/influence

Differences in congregations existed from the start, that's a Biblical fact.

Someone comes along and gathers multiple congregations and/or teaches something different and eventually forms a denomination. Now you have differences in denominations, lead by some form of central authority... not individual congregations following Christ and operating like the first congregations did.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Yeah, those pesky Reformers...teaching us that we can communicate and fellowship directly with God through Jesus and that we can (and have the responsibility to) read Scripture for ourselves and gain understanding through the Holy Spirit. What were THEY thinking?!?

For what it's worth, much of what you listed above was--and is--not rejected in Roman Catholicism. The Reformation was first and foremost about the doctrine of Justification. Everything else either flowed from that or was peripheral.

Indeed, Luther once said that if the Pope confessed Justification through faith alone he would happily go to Rome and personally kiss the Pope's ring.

Nothing was more important than this to Luther and the original Reformers. And it is singularly the only reason why Rome and Wittenburg remain outside of communion with one another to the present day.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dark_Lite

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You'e showing possible correlation but no causality.

It's easy to brush it off that way, I guess. But if it's causality you want, then it's causality you shall get.

When Luther couldn't get the Catholic Church to bend to his will, he went off and started his own group that schismed from the Church. Lutheranism spread quickly, particularly among German princes who felt their power was being limited too much by the Church. Solution? Become Lutheran and don't have to answer to the Pope. Religion is now in the hands of the state, and the Catholic Church can't do anything about it (well, they tried and obviously failed).

In England, Henry VIII schismed over politics. The "nationalized Catholicism" that resulted spiraled further away from the Catholic Church after his death and eventually forced Catholicism out of England for centuries. There are still anti-Catholic laws in Britain's legal system today. Once again, the Catholic Church could no longer control religion in that region.

Colonialism was beginning to seriously take off as well, and those nations which became Protestant spread their Protestantism to the areas they controlled. Sometimes newer denominations actually fled to the new world to avoid persecution (see: Puritans). Of course, those new denominations came from disagreements with the denomination they split from, which in turn were splits from the Catholic Church.

Over the next few centuries, the temporal power of all forms of Christianity became reduced, allowing the schismatic mentality to flourish without any real, legal repercussions.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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It's easy to brush it off that way, I guess. But if it's causality you want, then it's causality you shall get.

When Luther couldn't get the Catholic Church to bend to his will, he went off and started his own group that schismed from the Church. Lutheranism spread quickly, particularly among German princes who felt their power was being limited too much by the Church. Solution? Become Lutheran and don't have to answer to the Pope. Religion is now in the hands of the state, and the Catholic Church can't do anything about it (well, they tried and obviously failed).

In England, Henry VIII schismed over politics. The "nationalized Catholicism" that resulted spiraled further away from the Catholic Church after his death and eventually forced Catholicism out of England for centuries. There are still anti-Catholic laws in Britain's legal system today. Once again, the Catholic Church could no longer control religion in that region.

Colonialism was beginning to seriously take off as well, and those nations which became Protestant spread their Protestantism to the areas they controlled. Sometimes newer denominations actually fled to the new world to avoid persecution (see: Puritans). Of course, those new denominations came from disagreements with the denomination they split from, which in turn were splits from the Catholic Church.

Over the next few centuries, the temporal power of all forms of Christianity became reduced, allowing the schismatic mentality to flourish without any real, legal repercussions.



.... and attitudes like this.





.






.
 
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JackKerouac

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Dark_Lite said:
It's easy to brush it off that way, I guess. But if it's causality you want, then it's causality you shall get.

When Luther couldn't get the Catholic Church to bend to his will, he went off and started his own group that schismed from the Church.

Your entire argument seems to be predicated upon this extremely distorted, biased, and dishonest statement; which pretty much strips it of any credibility.
 
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Dark_Lite

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Your entire argument seems to be predicated upon this extremely distorted, biased, and dishonest statement; which pretty much strips it of any credibility.

And your (lack of an) argument seems to be based on quoting tiny portions of my post and dodging the main with equally tiny, unsupported assertions.

You might not like my characterization of the situation, but it's exactly what happened. We even have CryptoLutheran in this thread stating that Luther said he would have returned to the Catholic Church and kissed the Pope's ring if the Pope accepted his idea on justification. The Pope did not accept it. Luther saw no other option, and went his own way.
 
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Vermax

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Your entire argument seems to be predicated upon this extremely distorted, biased, and dishonest statement; which pretty much strips it of any credibility.

I don't know, I thought it was pretty right on. Did not Luther mess with the Bible? Did he not go out and get married in direct contradiction to Roman Catholic requirements for the clergy? Yep, he couldn't get the Church to go his way, so he went off alone. He, a mortal man now had the truth about all things religious. His truth, not the Church's.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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I don't know, I thought it was pretty right on. Did not Luther mess with the Bible?


No.


Did he not go out and get married in direct contradiction to Roman Catholic requirements for the clergy?

No.

He married LONG after he was no longer Roman Catholic clergy.


he couldn't get the Church to go his way, so he went off alone.

Actually, the RC denomination booted him out. BIG difference.





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