Why so many denominations?

[Albion]

Any church or organization that is in anyway distinguishable from another has some manner of tradition

Not necessarily. There are plenty that have separated from another merelu becasuse of a dispute over who should have taken over upon the death of the last leader. What's the
"tradition" there and how long a tradition is it, considering that traditions are supposed to have some considerable time frame.

But that's not even the main point. It's this--the catholic churches make tradition their substitute for the Bible when the determine their doctrines. To suggest that the Protestant churches do the same without admitting it, when these churches all look to Scripture Alone, is really a mistake.

Take the tradition of holding the canonical Bible as the word of God for example.

That's not a tradition at all. It is not a longstanding custom that has the effect of being made into a doctrine merely because it's been around for awhile. From the start, these churches affirmed the authority of the Bible, so tradition has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

That's not a tradition at all. It is not a longstanding custom that has the effect of being made into a doctrine merely because it's been around for awhile. From the start, these churches affirmed the authority of the Bible, so tradition has nothing to do with it.

What is a longstanding custom of a particular religion, denomination, church, etc.. if not a tradition? The two are practically synonymous in this instance. Look at the first two definition for the term "tradition"

Definition
tra·di·tion
[ trə dísh'n ]

tra·di·tions Plural

NOUN

1.
custom or belief: a long-established action or pattern of behavior in a community or group of people, often one that has been handed down from generation to generation

2.
body of customs: a body of long-established customs and beliefs viewed as a set of precedents

3.
handing down of customs: the handing down of patterns of behavior, practices, and beliefs that are valued by a culture






​

 

[Albion]

What is a longstanding custom of a particular religion, denomination, church, etc.. if not a tradition?

But you were talking about doctrines, the reasons for there to be different denominations. You were not intending to discuss how many candles go on the altar or whether there should be steeples and stained glass windows. You were talking about the basis for these churches' beliefs and that is SCRIPTURE, not a "longstanding custom."

 

[Ishraqiyun]

• What constitutes Scripture.
• What Scripture actually means and how to interpret it.
• The proper role Scripture plays in determine theological, moral, etc. questions.
• The inerrancy or fallibility of Scripture.

All those things constitute a churches, religions, or sects traditions. In fact Scripture itself is a form of Christian tradition in that it contains authoritative teachings regarding behavior, belief, and religious practice that have been handed down over time. The question of divine inspiration doesn't change anything in regards to something being a tradition or not. Some traditions might be divinely inspired others might not be.

What I'm getting at is that no church is free from tradition in so far as it actually teaches something or has a specific point of view. Tradition doesn't automatically equal tradition of men. Pointing out that a church has a tradition should in no way imply anything negative about the church in question. People tend to use it as an attack though because they conflate all tradition with the traditions the Bible labels "the traditions of men."

 

[Stephen Kendall]

May I suggest that you're speaking of different interpretations of Scripture rather than a tradition, add on, or subtraction, all of which imply some sort of improper and willful fiddling with the essentials of the faith. If you say "tradition" you are suggesting that those who use the Bible as the final determiner of doctrine actually are following some customs or unscriptural theories in the Roman Catholic manner. Because most of the churches you began by mentioning are Protestant churches and, by definition, opposed to supplementing scripture with such as that, the word is a poor choice, that's all.




Maybe you are just using the word in an odd way. Luther, for example, wasn't referring to some "tradition" of his when asserting that the corrupt practices in the church needed to be reformed.

Were the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ made in a way that we needed interpretations by men to follow him and be found obeying him? Otherwords could we even obey Jesus, since we didn't understand him in the first place. Such thinking is to suggest that our judgments to come from God of whether we have followed the Word of God (Jesus) or not will be flawed. Do I need interpretation of Jesus' teachings and commands to obey him? God said to listen to his beloved son and obey him. He never said anything about interpretations or the need of them. The Holy Spirit was sent as our helper to guide and lead us, but we still needed to be found obeying Jesus for what we know of his commands and teachings.

Non-Jesus-traditions, add-ons, enhancements or interpretations are all a batch outside of the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ. The reason to separate these is to have common ground that is solid as a rock. The core faith in Jesus was established by the voice of God himself spoken aloud for all of us to know, "This is my beloved son, listen to him and obey him." God never included the four above or anything else. Jesus is complete and there is salvation in himself alone. When you look at things in this way, all persons, no matter the church affiliation, who obey God's demand on us of obeying the core faith (listening to his beloved son and obeying him) are obeying his Will and he is pleased with them. End of story. These of the core faith are brothers and sisters and can have fellowship with one another. I will politely call the extras onto the core faith found in all types of churches as enhancements, but the real name is more troublesome, add-ons. If you so wish to call them interpretations instead, then just remember that you could be referring that we are not able to obey the core faith and therefore are outside of the judgment of God, since his Word (Jesus' teachings and commands) has to be interpreted to be understood. I don't think playing innocent will work with God, no more than my two young sons doing it to me. Do you really need to have love your enemies or do good to those who misuse you interpreted?

 

[Albion]

Were the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ made in a way that we needed interpretations by men to follow him and be found obeying him? Otherwords could we even obey Jesus, since we didn't understand him in the first place. Such thinking is to suggest that our judgments to come from God of whether we have followed the Word of God (Jesus) or not will be flawed. Do I need interpretation of Jesus' teachings and commands to obey him? God said to listen to his beloved son and obey him. He never said anything about interpretations or the need of them. The Holy Spirit was sent as our helper to guide and lead us, but we still needed to be found obeying Jesus for what we know of his commands and teachings.

Nevertheless, the differences between the churches owes mainly to the fact that we differ on how to understand certain information we find in Scripture.

Non-Jesus-traditions, add-ons, enhancements or interpretations are all a batch outside of the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ.

I don't see how "interpretation,' i.e. understanding the meaning of X, belongs in that list, but I agree that add-ons, supplements to Scripture called "Tradition" or "Sacred Tradition," and subtractions are improper.

And because the Protestant churches which make up most of the 30,000 or so denominations that you mentioned are known for having rejected all of that, it is a good idea to avoid using the term "traditions" when describing their approach to truth. That was all I was saying.

 

[shturt678]

What am i not seeing, seriously, regarding "Biblical interpretation" in IIPet.1:20, 21 and ICor.12:10??? thank u so much for ur patience.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Nevertheless, the differences between the churches owes mainly to the fact that we differ on how to understand certain information we find in Scripture.


I don't see how "interpretation,' i.e. understanding the meaning of X, belongs in that list, but I agree that add-ons, supplements to Scripture called "Tradition" or "Sacred Tradition," and subtractions are improper.

And because the Protestant churches which make up most of the 30,000 or so denominations that you mentioned are known for having rejected all of that, it is a good idea to avoid using the term "traditions" when describing their approach to truth. That was all I was saying.

Their approach to truth?

We have the teachings and commands of Christ and his sent Holy Spirit (our universal core Faith in Jesus Christ). We have what is sufficient according to scripture, except for one thing very important and that is our fellowship & prayer with each other. That is why I separate as to the above of what we have from the whatever title you give it (traditions, approach to truth, add-ons, enhancements or interpretations). We all have Jesus' words and they are preserved for us, pretty much as they were written. What comes after that through churches or their establishments or religious leaders or false prophets or whatever is not our one core Faith. This being true is how we can keep Jesus' commandment of being known by our love for our brethren and for one another. We get the right to obey Jesus and this right trumps all else. I can go to any church and should find people following Christ (the core Faith). I can have fellowship with them and love them. I can obey Jesus. The churches being led by their doctrines could try to stop such, but why would they, surely they don't intent to teach us to be disobedient towards Christ's great commandment to be known by our love for one another would they? Do you see my point in our individual responsibility to obey Jesus over any person or religious establishment? We need to stay focused on Christ to be found following him and obeying him as through what we know is simple and true (the core Faith of listening to and obeying Jesus, God's Word to us).

 

[Stephen Kendall]

This one core Faith is what makes all true Christians throughout the many different churches the one true Church of Jesus Christ. Because we occupy many different buildings and churches doesn't take away from our obedience, does it?

 

[Albion]

Their approach to truth?

Yes. That which is considered to be the final authority on matters of belief. Protestantism stands on Sola Scriptura and does not consider "tradition" to be its equal.

 

[shturt678]

To Stephen Kendall: the many different churches the one true church??? i sure would like to think so; however due to the English translated Bibles containing a veiled paradox where we communicate in unity yet extremely diverse in interpretations of the core "faith," each thinking the have the one genuine way or ways of God producing "faith," hopefully my opinion is in error and all us church goers, i'm a church goer,l end in heaven ... except for Matt.7:21, etc. of course ... my opinion as to why so many different denominations.

 

[Albion]

This one core Faith is what makes all true Christians throughout the many different churches the one true Church of Jesus Christ.

That is true.

I'm not sure what we're all discussing at this point, but what you said here is quite right.

Still, it doesn't solve the problem of multiple denominations because there are other matters on which Christians will disagree, and they are not unimportant, even if they are not essential to the faith.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I am suppose to be looking for a job, but sometimes, I think that God has hired me. I accept his pay and trust him above all.

Thank you for your posts. It takes a lot to explain these things, but it is easier to just go back to Jesus and ask the Father for your answers. He will help and answer all your questions.

A burden has been lifted off of my shoulders about our Faith in Jesus. I am posting many different places and on different forums about these things. Like I said, I am suppose to be job seeking today, but I am sharing instead.

My nephew, Benjamin, my sister's child, tried to bring the different churches of Cheyenne, WY together. He had modest success with the young believers of the varied churches only. What I am trying to say is that you can have 100% success in your life having fellowship with all who claim Jesus and follow him (listen to and obey him). What Christian is going to argue with Jesus in his commands and teachings? Leave it at that. Paul was all things for all people, to reach more for Christ. He also was weak for weak Christians and their weak Churches (Romans C.14). Why? He had fellowship with them, loved them, upheld them and cared for them.

Got to go. My wife needs the computer. Later.

 

[shturt678]

To Stephen Kendall I would like to make just a slight modification if you don't mind, "This one faith, as denominational diverse as it is, is what makes all true Christians, etc." Do you approve??? I'm really with you as I'm a strict conservative Lutheran, ol' school, and I actively attend Pentecostal and Baptist church's recently, I agape it. I just wanted a little more accuracy dealing with denominations ... open for correction and ? thank you

 

[Stephen Kendall]

To Stephen Kendall: the many different churches the one true church??? i sure would like to think so; however due to the English translated Bibles containing a veiled paradox where we communicate in unity yet extremely diverse in interpretations of the core "faith," each thinking the have the one genuine way or ways of God producing "faith," hopefully my opinion is in error and all us church goers, i'm a church goer,l end in heaven ... except for Matt.7:21, etc. of course ... my opinion as to why so many different denominations.

In the early Church days, there were many different types of churches, but all accepted the core beliefs of listening to and obeying Jesus Christ. I like to call the extras that the churches had as enhancements. Apostle Paul called these Christians just different and of some, weak Christians, yet fully accepted by God and thus accepted as they were. You were not to put them down, you were to respect them and lift them up, even prefer them over yourself. The New Testament has a lot about how to live together following Christ and obeying the will of God. This is through understanding and obeying Jesus' commands and teachings. We are able to side-step the things outside of our obedience to Jesus' words and even our acceptance by God in its own unique way. This seems a mystery, yet it is an answer on how we are to love one another. As older brothers and sisters in God's family, we lift up weaker ones towards our Father. Yet are we not also weak to the older and more mature ones? We are bound by loving each other and listening to and obeying our Lord Jesus Christ. This is where true Christians and the more mature ones can be found. We need to be part of them.

Matthew 7:21
American Standard Version (ASV)
21[bless and do not curse]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I don't know where [bless and do not curse] came from. I only copied and pasted Matthew 7:21 from Gateway. I felt that I should leave it. Perhaps God's Will is to bless each other and not curse. Just a thought. If you think about it, if we are to forgive each other and love each other, then we would not curse one another, just bless. The will of the Father is only found in one place and that is to listen to and obey Jesus Christ. You want it simple. Jesus gave it simple, except he expected you to be interested and listening well and sorting things out yourself. He spoke in parables as a teacher. Your comprehension comes much on your own. The will of his Father should be the will of your own. It is, if you were to listen to the teachings and obey the commands of Jesus Christ. This in a nut shell is the will of God. Life is a little complicated, so Jesus taught things over a period of time, we should get the jest of God's will through all of his son's teachings and commands. Remember, it was God who said to "This is my beloved son, listen to him and obey him." It is Jesus who said for us to obey the will of his Father. So, Jesus' Way is our path towards God's will and our salvation. Adding to this or Scripture is wrong. We are not to add or subtract. Do you think that Satan cares or would?

Apostle Paul had traditions and established his churches on them. That was his right and they were his churches to Christ. However, Paul kept to his core faith by showing love and acceptance to those outside of his traditions. He did not curse these. He only bless them. He recognized them as God's servants and were already accepted by God.

I guess what I am trying to tell people is that we can have God's peace and love within us, if we can see daylight by following his son. Let us get educated in Jesus by listening to him & obeying him through the New Testament Gospels, Acts, Apostles' & Disciples' writings & Revelations always hearing through the Holy Spirit' help and guidance as part of God's Family.

Bottom line is that we can know the will of God through his son. We should seek this will out and do so by following his son. There are no middle men in this. We do have the given Holy Spirit as our helper and complete guide. Salvation is a very personal thing through our Savior and with the help of the Holy Spirit. This makes it unique to be accepted by the Father. Let us make an honest effort to follow his son.

 

[Albion]

In the early Church days, there were many different types of churches, but all accepted the core beliefs of listening to and obeying Jesus Christ.

Very well. Reduce the articles of belief to as few as is possible, and we could think of every Christian from Roman Catholic to Jehovah's Witness as being in the same church, but it's only a concept. They CAN'T actually be in the same denomination unless false teaching is permitted to drive out correct doctrine. What's so good about that?

 

[Stephen Kendall]

To Stephen Kendall I would like to make just a slight modification if you don't mind, "This one faith, as denominational diverse as it is, is what makes all true Christians, etc." Do you approve??? I'm really with you as I'm a strict conservative Lutheran, ol' school, and I actively attend Pentecostal and Baptist church's recently, I agape it. I just wanted a little more accuracy dealing with denominations ... open for correction and ? thank you

As long as you are following the teachings of Jesus Christ and obeying him, then the names that we like to tag on are acceptable. How could they be otherwise, for aren't we self-correcting with Christ and his given Spirit of humility? Isn't it nice feeling like this huge burden and weight is being lifted off? Are we entering into Jesus' Peace? I feel like it. Got to find a job. See everyone later.

 

[Albion]

As long as you are following the teachings of Jesus Christ and obeying him, then the names that we like to tag on are acceptable.

Oh. I guess I was mistaken. I thought that you were saying that denominations were either wrong or unnecessary.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Very well. Reduce the articles of belief to as few as is possible, and we could think of every Christian from Roman Catholic to Jehovah's Witness as being in the same church, but it's only a concept. They CAN'T actually be in the same denomination unless false teaching is permitted to drive out correct doctrine. What's so good about that?

It is your personal responsibility to follow Jesus, that is what makes you part of his Church. I go to my wife's church (Seventh Day Adventist), to my two sisters' (Non Denominational & Jehovah Witnesses), to my friends (Methodist & Baptist) and where else? Some churches will support things directly against the teachings of Christ. A terrible example would be supporting war, when Jesus told us to love our enemies (many churches). Another example would be to not respect & love your other brothers and sisters in Christ (Jehovah Witnesses). Another example would be similar calling other brethren lost because of Days and foods (Seventh Day Adventist), yet God has accepted them. You can see the problems brewing by parting from the commands and teachings of Christ. How can a Christian even love his own brethren when he follows any Church's variance from another, yet there are many who do follow Christ. Be found as one and have his peace. Apostle Paul sure was one: read Romans C.14. He fulfilled his responsibility and obeyed Jesus. Let us do the same.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

It's supper and have to go.