Why so few Buddhists?

[Cabbages]

I do not think their intent was to belittle- many people see Buddhism as a philosophy rather than as a religion.

 

[Gentle]

Namaste Gentle,

thank you for the post.



you are correct... Buddhas teachings are rightly referred to as Dharma, Buddha dharmas to be precise.

however, Buddhism and Christianity, despite they're agreement on certain moral and ethical issues, are not compatible at the doctrinal level. there really isn't any means to reconcile the Christian view of an eternally existing, unchanging soul with the Buddhist teaching of Impermenance and selflessness.

i'm aware that there are many beings which have become aware of Buddha Shakyamunis philosophical teachings and, having tested them, find them to be correct and accurate, leading to the happiness of all beings. however, Buddha Dharma is more than a philosophy, it is a Dharma, as our Muslim friends like to say "it is a complete way of life."

metta,

~v

yes, I know what you are speaking of
but I can live with both as I have a slit personality
There is Hindu in there somewhere, a Jew,
an organ grinder, a go go dancer
u have to make allowances for the insane

God bless you bro
Andrew

 

[Gracchus]

yes, I know what you are speaking of
but I can live with both as I have a slit personality
There is Hindu in there somewhere, a Jew,
an organ grinder, a go go dancer
u have to make allowances for the insane

God bless you bro
Andrew

Or perhaps you just see a bit more than most, Gentle.

The Blind Men and the Elephant

It was six men of Indostan To learning much inclined,

Who went to see the Elephant (Though all of them were blind), That each by observation Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant, And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk, Cried, “Ho! what have we here So very round and smooth and sharp? To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal, And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand, And felt about the knee. “What most this wondrous beast is like Is mighty plain,” quoth he; “ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right, And all were in the wrong!

Moral:
So oft in theologic wars, The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen!​

--John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)






​

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Gracchus,



thank you for the post.



this parable was around a bit before the 1800's

A number of disciples went to the Buddha and said, "Sir, there are living here in Savatthi many wandering hermits and scholars who indulge in constant dispute, some saying that the world is infinite and eternal and others that it is finite and not eternal, some saying that the soul dies with the body and others that it lives on forever, and so forth. What, Sir, would you say concerning them?"



The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift,

• O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim For preacher and monk the honored name! For, quarreling, each to his view they cling. Such folk see only one side of a thing

Udana 68-69


just a bit before John Godfrey Saxe

metta,

~v

 

[kris_kwel]

yes, I know what you are speaking of
but I can live with both as I have a slit personality
There is Hindu in there somewhere, a Jew,
an organ grinder, a go go dancer
u have to make allowances for the insane

God bless you bro
Andrew

From Vajradhara to Rahul Shorma , from Ram to Rahma , from Mountalban to arunma, I feel all are part of wonderfull slit personality here including me. Actually (really) we are one, everything is One still divided and different.

Am i the most insane part?

 

[kit]

Buddhism isn't a religion.

This would be a good example why Buddhists don't stick around.

 

[kit]

I go to a temple. I support monks. I show devotion to Buddha images. I meditate, study, and make effort to practice Dhamma. That is a religion. It certainly is my religion.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Buddhism isn't a religion.

No one has a religion these days! The word "religion" is out. The in-words are now "relationship" and "spiritual".

BTW, Buddhism may not be in its deepest essence a religion, but no doubt religions have formed around Buddhism. There can be little doubt that Pure Land Buddhism, just as one example, is a religion.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[Fares]

Christian Forums isn't exactly a friendly place to be and while some think it's their right to bash other religions it's really a definite turn-off for most..

I support the bashing of religions that dont tolerate freedom.
So I never bashed Bahai and as far as I can see her followers , till now, are pretty cool ( Arthara, Clark and 9harmony ).

Same for hindus, buddism, atheist and more, they support the Golden Rule, I support them and I will nver bash them.

 

[Mskedi]

I would disagree that Buddhism is not a religion. -- there are several different types, so I think blanket statements like that about it should be avoided.

I am very close to a bunch of Thai Buddhists and they are very, very religious.

Perhaps the few Buddhists who have identified themselves here wouldn't mind telling us what type they follow? I'm just curious... I know Thai Buddhism is quite a bit different than every other kind out there, but it's on the type I know the most about, so I'd love to hear what types are represented and whether you, personally, consider your beliefs a religion or not.

 

[ericf]

Hello.

Check out e-sangha sometime. It can be just as contentious as things around here, but in a different way. It seems folks are rife with opposing views no matter what group they belong to...

Metta,
ZW

Oh yes... this is so true. I was there for a little while and then I read the whole rebirth debate. After reading the whole thing I sat for a bit and realized there was a level of dogmatic pressure in that debate and elsewhere on the forums which I felt uncomfortable with. I've given up dogma. Even where I personally agreed with the things people were saying, I felt uncomfortable with how they were saying them and their insistence that everyone else conform to their way of thinking.

So I just moved on. I am sometimes shocked to find almost violently dogmatic and sectarian Buddhists seeking to argue every little thing.

 

[Clark_98C]

I haven't ever been witness to any real Buddhist bashing threads here. So is it the bashing of, for example, Islam and Hinduism that has driven them away?

 

[ericf]

I haven't ever been witness to any real Buddhist bashing threads here. So is it the bashing of, for example, Islam and Hinduism that has driven them away?

I am no fan of Islam -- trust me. But seeing people attacked repeatedly and without cease bothers me. So yes, that does help drive me away most of the time.

 

[Radio-Free Gnosis]

Actually, I've been a Buddhist for months now (after moving from gnosticism)...I just can't find where to change my icon...

I don't post here much anymore. My last posting streak got pretty angry, the thread it was in got deleted, yadda yadda...It did get me some nifty reputation, though...

I do post regularly at e-sangha, though.

 

[AlanGurvey]

I think its because some of the most abusive idiots crawl around here trying to convert non-christians.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Mskedi,

thank you for the post.

I would disagree that Buddhism is not a religion. -- there are several different types, so I think blanket statements like that about it should be avoided.

Buddha Dharma is a Dharma not a religion, per se. nevertheless, to use the English words, Buddhism is a religion.

religion has a broad meaning, at least in the dictonary, to wit:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at [SIZE=-1]RELY[/SIZE]

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : [SIZE=-1]CONSCIENTIOUSNESS[/SIZE]

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religion

so, i would posit that Buddha Dharma is a religion in the sense of definition 2, 3 and 4.

I am very close to a bunch of Thai Buddhists and they are very, very religious.

as well they should be are these monastics or laypeople that you know? generally speaking, the Buddha Dharma found in Thailand is the Hinyana tenet system. when the Christians destroyed Buddhism in Sri Lanka, the Thai Theravedans came to the island and re-established the monastic orders, after the Christian invaders had been driven out.

Perhaps the few Buddhists who have identified themselves here wouldn't mind telling us what type they follow?

i practice the Vajrayana as found in Tibet.

I'm just curious... I know Thai Buddhism is quite a bit different than every other kind out there,

whilst this seems to be correct it actually is not. Buddha Dharma has a whole slew of methods and means to keep track of things and, as such, what we generally see is beings misunderstanding this tracking system, as it were.

Buddha Dharma uses Vehicles to help beings to the Other Shore. a "vehicle" is a technical term in the Buddha Dharma to denote a spiritual path which is capable of Awakening a being and Liberating them. as such, Buddhism has three Vehicles, the Hinyana, Mahayana and Vajrayana. within each Vehicle there are numerous schools of practice, which we would call "practice lineages". the notable exception to this is the Hinyana. historically, there were 17 different schools within the overall Hinyana tenet system and to not recognize those seems a bit out of place. in modern times, however, there is only one school of Hinyana extant and, as such, the entire tenet system is simply denoted by the school as Theraveda.

to couch this in terms which may be more famliar to you, Theraveda is like the Orthodox school, Mahayana is like the Catholic school and Vajrayana is like the Protestant school. this is just a way to help keep track, our Vehicles do not really correspond in the same manner, doctrinally, as the aforementioned Christian groups.

but it's on the type I know the most about, so I'd love to hear what types are represented and whether you, personally, consider your beliefs a religion or not.

no, i don't. it is a Dharma. however, we can use the term "religion" provided we are all using the same definition of the term as noted previously

metta,

~v

 

[kit]

I would disagree that Buddhism is not a religion. -- there are several different types, so I think blanket statements like that about it should be avoided.

I am very close to a bunch of Thai Buddhists and they are very, very religious.

Perhaps the few Buddhists who have identified themselves here wouldn't mind telling us what type they follow? I'm just curious... I know Thai Buddhism is quite a bit different than every other kind out there, but it's on the type I know the most about, so I'd love to hear what types are represented and whether you, personally, consider your beliefs a religion or not.

I am Theravada (that is the school found among Thais).

 

[kit]

I will say here that I don't see some things quite the way vajradhara does.

The Orthodox/Catholic/Protestant analogy isn't a very good one. I would see Theravada=Catholic, vajrayana=Orthodox, and Mahayana=Protestant.

I also don't see vajrayana as separate from Mahayana. I categorize into four broad categories. Theravada is the first strand. Mahayana encompassing the other three. Zen, Vajrayana schools, and other Northern schools.

lastly it is generally seen pejorative to refer to a Hinayana school.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Kit,

thank you for the post.

I will say here that I don't see some things quite the way vajradhara does.

naturally if you did, you would be me

The Orthodox/Catholic/Protestant analogy isn't a very good one. I would see Theravada=Catholic, vajrayana=Orthodox, and Mahayana=Protestant.

i was using this analogy in a chronological sense, though it is really just a way to help a non-Buddhist keep in mind that there are three Vehicles in the Buddha Dharma.

I also don't see vajrayana as separate from Mahayana.

curious why you do not. generally speaking, the difference between Vajrayana and Mahayana is the inclusion of the Tantric teachings of the 84 Mahasiddhas and the adherence to a different philosophical school.

by and large, the Mahayana schools adhere to the Yogachara philosophical view whereas the Varjayana adheres to the Madyamika philosophical view.

lastly it is generally seen pejorative to refer to a Hinayana school.

whilst i would tend to agree that there are some beings which use it in this sense, that seems to be a mistaken point of view to take. though, i think that what you mean to be saying here is that some beings perceive the term "hinyana" to be perjorative, not referencing the historically existing schools within this Vehicle, per se.

metta,

~v

 

[kit]

Only the last two points seem to warrant address.

I don't think it is a mistaken view. Misconceptions arise from the term Hinayana. (Namely that our School is really only for Bikkhus). It does become something of an insult. I myself tend to see it that way.

There is a general assumption that other so-called hinayana schools existed (besides Theravada). I would not want to prove how to categorize long extinct traditions however.

Of course Vajrayana has distinctives that noticeably differentiate it from other schools. I fail to see how tantric features somehow separate Vajrayana from the overall concept of MAHAyana.

Even within my schema there could certainly be a fourth "branch" of Mahayana. Soka Gakkai can be seen as a strand unto itself.