Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

[Patchworks]

When her nipples bounce off her belly, it's a good idea not to go topless.

Besides, we're falling as a nation at an amazingly fast pace morally. Why add NOS to the trip?

 

[Ada Lovelace]

There is no comparison between the genders on the visual. There is actually quite a bit of negative material out there by females about males. What women do with the visual is look for character clues or traits; for men it is seldom that, and is usually a sexual arousal.

As far as I know, one of the tricks of pornography is to subvert this reality through indoctrination, because then there will be a greater market.

So the Chippendales rip off their shirts to expose their muscular chests to the audience of cheering ladies just to keep their shirt supplier in a steady stream of business? Until recently Abercrombie & Fitch had their flagship store at the Grove, an outdoor shopping center here in LA, and two eye candy employees would stand at the entry. Did the supremely hot dudes stand there topless just to get more vitamin D on their chests? Did so many sculptors and painters just depict Adonis shirtless because they were too lazy to add in a toga?

If you're a heterosexual male I can see why you'd think the perfectly chiseled chest of a hot guy wasn't comparable to a woman's exposed breasts, because it's not visually pleasing to you. I feel the same way about breasts. To me they're just blobs on our chests that get in the way of some sports and activities. I don't really get why're arousing. But apparently a lot of straight men and gay women do. There's actually a legitimate purpose to a woman exposing her breasts in public such as to breast feed, but I can't think of any one for males besides wanting to cool off or peacock.

Legalizing toplessness for women is a step towards it becoming more culturally acceptable. Just as legalizing toplessness for men. In the past men had to wearing bathing suits that covered their chests, and suits also needed to extend far below the thigh on both genders. You still do not see men going into Fortune 500 companies or fine dining establishments without shirts on, and if women were permitted to be topless most would still use common sense discretion regarding the appropriate contexts. Hopefully if laws did changed, and with it the conditioned cultural response to breasts, then women who breast feed in public wouldn't feel as awkward about it. When I've been abroad I've seen so many women breast feed without receiving any stares or raised brows. I just read an article about how an American actress refused to apologize for a photo of her taken while breast feeding in public, as if she'd done some revolutionary act.

 

[Armoured]

When her nipples bounce off her belly, it's a good idea not to go topless.

Besides, we're falling as a nation at an amazingly fast pace morally. Why add NOS to the trip?

*sigh*

 

[TerranceL]

When her nipples bounce off her belly, it's a good idea not to go topless.

Besides, we're falling as a nation at an amazingly fast pace morally. Why add NOS to the trip?

Is your topless body really so horrible that it's sinful to show it?

 

[Armoured]

Is your topless body really so horrible that it's sinful to show it?

I like how there was bost body shaming AND sanctimonious moralising in the same post!

 

[Darkhorse]

So the Chippendales rip off their shirts to expose their muscular chests to the audience of cheering ladies just to keep their shirt supplier in a steady stream of business? Until recently Abercrombie & Fitch had their flagship store at the Grove, an outdoor shopping center here in LA, and two eye candy employees would stand at the entry. Did the supremely hot dudes stand there topless just to get more vitamin D on their chests? Did so many sculptors and painters just depict Adonis shirtless because they were too lazy to add in a toga?

Legalizing toplessness for women is a step towards it becoming more culturally acceptable. Just as legalizing toplessness for men. In the past men had to wearing bathing suits that covered their chests, and suits also needed to extend far below the thigh on both genders. You still do not see men going into Fortune 500 companies or fine dining establishments without shirts on, and if women were permitted to be topless most would still use common sense discretion regarding the appropriate contexts. Hopefully if laws did changed, and with it the conditioned cultural response to breasts, then women who breast feed in public wouldn't feel as awkward about it.

Right on target!

My wife and her mother went to a Chippendales show a long time ago. Both of them are very visual. Her mom was married; my wife and I weren't yet.

I didn't mind - she likes hairy chests better than smooth ones.

 

[TerranceL]

I like how there was bost body shaming AND sanctimonious moralising in the same post!

I don't understand the logic, "God made us as we are", "The way God made us is sinful unless we cover it up."

 

[Armoured]

I don't understand the logic, "God made us as we are", "The way God made us is sinful unless we cover it up."

Yep. Dig just a little into what people think about ethics that are "obvious" and it's not long until you start finding contradictions. Point them out, though, and it's you that's the bad person.

 

[Archivist]

There is no comparison between the genders on the visual. There is actually quite a bit of negative material out there by females about males. What women do with the visual is look for character clues or traits; for men it is seldom that, and is usually a sexual arousal.

Why should we be arresting, fining and jailing women just because seeing a topless women sexually arouses some men?

As I have said throughout this thread, breasts would become less sexually stimulating if it became common for women to go topless in public. Am I saying that men would no longer look at attractive, well-endowed women? Of course not. But women look at good-looking guys with six-pack abs yet we allow them to go topless in public.

 

[Eudaimonist]

When her nipples bounce off her belly, it's a good idea not to go topless.

Why? It might not be sexy, but so what?

Besides, we're falling as a nation at an amazingly fast pace morally.

I think that that is more illusion than anything else. Every generation feels that way. If you look at crime statistics, violent crime has actually been dropping for the past few decades.

I don't see how bare nipples indicate any drop in morality. Are nipples dangerous weapons? If anything, that might even be a slight improvement, if only to get people to relax more about the human body.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Patchworks]

Is your topless body really so horrible that it's sinful to show it?

Aw, leave it to an atheist to attempt to imply a body insult to a Christian woman.
I teach aerobics and have to 10 years. How's your wife's body? Mine is as trim as it gets.
How's yours?

Modesty sir, probably escapes you, but none the less.
And for that one that sighed at the mere thought of modesty, please show me in scripture where it says women are to bare their breasts in public for all the world to see.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Archivist]

Aw, leave it to an atheist to attempt to imply a body insult to a Christian woman. I teach aerobics and have to 10 years. How's your wife's body? Mine is as trim as it gets. How's yours?

Modesty sir, probably escapes you, but none the less. And for that one that sighed at the mere thought of modesty, please show me in scripture where it says women are to bare their breasts in public for all the world to see.

Perhaps you should read the OP, paying particular attention to number 1, 2 and 3:

Would those who are opposed to women going topless in public please address the following:

1). At no place in Scripture are women forbidden from going topless in public.

2). 1 Timothy 2:9 tells us that women are to “dress modestly,” however “modestly” is defined as “adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.” Going topless is never mentioned. Nudity was actually much more common in Biblical times.

3). Romans 14:13 tells us not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother, but the allure of female breasts would diminish if women would regularly go topless in places where men commonly go topless. In addition we allow men to go topless in America(something that was illegal less than 100 years ago) with no concern that they might be placing a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of women.

4). Even if Scripture did forbid women from going topless, the US is a secular nation.

5). Men obviously can handle seeing women go topless because women regularly do so in many parts of the world.

6). If we are "created equal," how can we allow men to go without a shirt in public without allowing women to do the same?

 

[Dave-W]

3). Romans 14:13 tells us not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother, but the allure of female breasts would diminish if women would regularly go topless in places where men commonly go topless. In addition we allow men to go topless in America(something that was illegal less than 100 years ago) with no concern that they might be placing a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of women.

2 points I would like to make on this paragraph.

One - why do we WANT "the allure of female breasts" to "diminish" in the first place? I do not think that to be a good thing.

Two - there is a reason no fuss was made about men going shirtless early in the 20th century. Up to the start of that century, women were considered (since the time of Hypocrates - 400 bc) to have no sexual drive or arousal. And even well into the 20th century they were not considered to be visually stimulated.

Of course now we know that is not true. Women, especially the younger ones that did not grow up under that myth, are reporting being visually stimulated. Young women are using porn at an increasing rate - especially gay male porn.

IMO the concept of males going around "topless" may be worthwhile revisiting as well.

 

[Archivist]

One - why do we WANT "the allure of female breasts" to "diminish" in the first place? I do not think that to be a good thing.

So in order to keep the allure of the female breast we just keep arresting and prosecuting and fining women who want to do nothing more than what men commonly do.

Two - there is a reason no fuss was made about men going shirtless early in the 20th century. Up to the start of that century, women were considered (since the time of Hypocrates - 400 bc) to have no sexual drive or arousal. And even well into the 20th century they were not considered to be visually stimulated. Of course now we know that is not true. Women, especially the younger ones that did not grow up under that myth, are reporting being visually stimulated. Young women are using porn at an increasing rate - especially gay male porn. IMO the concept of males going around "topless" may be worthwhile revisiting as well.

And if you have read this entire thread you know that I have said that I personally wouldn't have a problem with making it illegal for men to go topless. However, at this point I don't believe that a majority of men would be willing to do that--I don't think we can go backwards.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't think we can go backwards.

But that is what christian repentance is all about. The Greek NT word translated to repent (metanoin) means to change your thinking, and the Hebrew OT word (Teshuvah) means to turn around and go back the way you came.

 

[SuperCloud]

I don't understand the logic, "God made us as we are", "The way God made us is sinful unless we cover it up."

That was not really the proposition of Genesis though, otherwise raping and stomping a woman to death would be perfectly moral. Both of which humans are genetically "wired" for as much as language.

 

[SuperCloud]

And check out Roman sculpture, which clearly focuses more on males as having sexual power instead of women. I realize that we live in a different era, but there is nothing intrinsic to female toplessness that makes it superior in sexual power to male toplessness.

The ancient Romans were not feminists. They had a very male bisexual culture. And if anything ancient Roman men were misogynistic bisexual males.

But yeah... I would concur with you that a well defined male chest (abs as well) is a sexually alluring point of a man. Ergo, in Islam a man is not supposed to have his abdomen or chest exposed to women that are not his wife or wives.

 

[Archivist]

But that is what christian repentance is all about. The Greek NT word translated to repent (metanoin) means to change your thinking, and the Hebrew OT word (Teshuvah) means to turn around and go back the way you came.

Except that we are talking about secular laws in a secular nation.

 

[Patchworks]

Perhaps you should read the OP, paying particular attention to number 1, 2 and 3:

Would those who are opposed to women going topless in public please address the following:

1). At no place in Scripture are women forbidden from going topless in public.

2). 1 Timothy 2:9 tells us that women are to “dress modestly,” however “modestly” is defined as “adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.” Going topless is never mentioned. Nudity was actually much more common in Biblical times.

3). Romans 14:13 tells us not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother, but the allure of female breasts would diminish if women would regularly go topless in places where men commonly go topless. In addition we allow men to go topless in America(something that was illegal less than 100 years ago) with no concern that they might be placing a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of women.

4). Even if Scripture did forbid women from going topless, the US is a secular nation.

5). Men obviously can handle seeing women go topless because women regularly do so in many parts of the world.

6). If we are "created equal," how can we allow men to go without a shirt in public without allowing women to do the same?

There are countless verses concerning immodesty.

The rest of your argument is banal. This isn't the rest of the world, this is the USA. Our laws are what they are and for good reason.

 

[Lachrymose]

Aw, leave it to an atheist to attempt to imply a body insult to a Christian woman.
I teach aerobics and have to 10 years. How's your wife's body? Mine is as trim as it gets.
How's yours?

Modesty sir, probably escapes you, but none the less.
And for that one that sighed at the mere thought of modesty, please show me in scripture where it says women are to bare their breasts in public for all the world to see.

Looking forward to it.

You're incredibly ugly on the inside. Maybe we should start forcing people to cover that up somehow.