Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

[davenigeria]

Well, this is not an issue a Christian should even be talking about. The bible makes us understand that it is a shame to even speak of what non believers do in secret. Such a conversation should never proceed out of the mouth of a believer.

 

[Dave-W]

The bible makes us understand that it is a shame to even speak of what non believers do in secret.

But this is not something "done in secret." It is right out there in the open for all to see.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Up here in Ontario a court legalized toplessness (not that I recommend it).

 

[Archivist]

Well, this is not an issue a Christian should even be talking about. The bible makes us understand that it is a shame to even speak of what non believers do in secret. Such a conversation should never proceed out of the mouth of a believer.

Exactly where in Scripture does it say that there is anything wrong with a woman going topless in public?

 

[Archivist]

Up here in Ontario a court legalized toplessness (not that I recommend it).

The courts in New York legalized it over a decade ago.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

As far as safety issues, I think attractive women are going to attract attention - some of it pleasing and innocent and other obnoxious and lascivious - regardless of what they are wearing there. Many female surfers have been hit on while in a wetsuit that completely covers you from shoulders to knee or ankle.

This is what I thought when I read the thread as well.

1) An attractive woman in a bikini, naked or wearing jeans and a hoodie is still attractive. An attractive woman may get oggled at and hit on regardless of what she's wearing. In fact, I would argue that certain types of clothing are more sexy and distracting than just laying everything out naked.

2) Its just a cultural norm. To those men who seem to think it would cause insurance rates to go up: Uhhh no, no it wouldn't. We would quickly get used to it. We would see topless, fat, old, women and look away (just like we do now with fat, old, women in bikinis) and we would see topless, hot, young women and stare (just like we do now with hot, young, women in bikinis). It would change almost nothing. Especially since bikinis hardly cover anything as it is.

3) That second point is of course assuming that women actually want to go topless. Do they? I dunno, but it would take a generation or two for it to become completely normalized. Currently, even if a woman wants to go topless and its legal to do so, will she? It takes a very confident person to go against centuries of cultural inertia. But in places where it is normal (aka a nude beach) there's no stigma so its much easier.

4) Finally, where I'm from there are no beaches or outdoor pools. So I hardly ever see topless men, let alone women. The only place where you see the rare topless man is on the jogging paths by the river. And from my understanding, no woman would want to jog without a bra...

 

[Dave-W]

2) Its just a cultural norm. To those men who seem to think it would cause insurance rates to go up: Uhhh no, no it wouldn't. We would quickly get used to it.

But why would we WANT to get used to it? I don't.


===========================================

And at the other end of the morality spectrum, there is BIG BUSINESS in women's breasts. Publications like Playboy, Penthouse and probably others make millions of $$ showing off breasts to guys who want to see them. And if seeing them becomes old hat, they go out of buisiness (which may not be a bad thing actually) Who wants to buy a mag showing pics of elbows or knees? No one because we see them all the time. It would be pretty much the same thing.

 

[Archivist]

But why would we WANT to get used to it? I don't.

And if you have read this thread you know that it was once illegal for men to go topless in public. I'm sure that it took a little time for women to get used to seeing topless men but I'm sure that most women today would tell you that seeing a topless man isn't a big deal.

And at the other end of the morality spectrum, there is BIG BUSINESS in women's breasts. Publications like Playboy, Penthouse and probably others make millions of $$ showing off breasts to guys who want to see them. And if seeing them becomes old hat, they go out of buisiness (which may not be a bad thing actually) Who wants to buy a mag showing pics of elbows or knees? No one because we see them all the time. It would be pretty much the same thing.

Times change. Should we have rejected the automobile because it eliminated the horse and buggy? Should we have rejected the refrigerator because it eliminated the ice box?

 

[Gadarene]

Exactly where in Scripture does it say that there is anything wrong with a woman going topless in public?

Or indeed that it's wrong to comment on what nonbelievers do in private?

I wish it were so, a fair few religionists could do with commenting less on such things

 

[Ada Lovelace]

This is what I thought when I read the thread as well.

1) An attractive woman in a bikini, naked or wearing jeans and a hoodie is still attractive. An attractive woman may get oggled at and hit on regardless of what she's wearing. In fact, I would argue that certain types of clothing are more sexy and distracting than just laying everything out naked.


2) Its just a cultural norm. To those men who seem to think it would cause insurance rates to go up: Uhhh no, no it wouldn't. We would quickly get used to it. We would see topless, fat, old, women and look away (just like we do now with fat, old, women in bikinis) and we would see topless, hot, young women and stare (just like we do now with hot, young, women in bikinis). It would change almost nothing. Especially since bikinis hardly cover anything as it is.

Culture definitely conditions our responses to nudity, fashion, and decorum. I remember going to beaches in Costa Brava, Spain when I was tiny and seeing people of all ages and sizes sunbathing topless or nude. Since no one was gasping in horrified disbelief, admonishing anyone, staring, or otherwise making a production, I thought little of it.

3) That second point is of course assuming that women actually want to go topless. Do they? I dunno, but it would take a generation or two for it to become completely normalized. Currently, even if a woman wants to go topless and its legal to do so, will she? It takes a very confident person to go against centuries of cultural inertia. But in places where it is normal (aka a nude beach) there's no stigma so its much easier.

I don't think many women have a desire to galavant around topless, but I know some would like to be able to take their top off at the beach or share pictures of themselves on their own social media pages without it then causing a ruckus. A friend had a video of her diving into her pool removed from Instagram because her top popped off when she hit the water and when she emerged her breasts were visible for a nanosecond. Had it been a boy nobody would have cared and would have focused on the awesomeness of the dive instead.

4) Finally, where I'm from there are no beaches or outdoor pools. So I hardly ever see topless men, let alone women. The only place where you see the rare topless man is on the jogging paths by the river. And from my understanding, no woman would want to jog without a bra...

Ha, I see shirtless men almost every day because I live near the beach and go running or surfing there as part of my routine. I think in an area like Venice Beach (which is not the beach closest to me or that I favor) where there is more exhibitionist behavior and people trying to be provocative as part of the tourist attraction novelty, there'd be more women walking around topless if they were legally at liberty to do so. In other parts of LA those who wanted to take off their top probably only would while sunbathing. I doubt many would run topless, but they might run braless comfortably if they, ahem, pass the pencil test.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Culture definitely conditions our responses to nudity, fashion, and decorum. I remember going to beaches in Costa Brava, Spain when I was tiny and seeing people of all ages and sizes sunbathing topless or nude. Since no one was gasping in horrified disbelief, admonishing anyone, staring, or otherwise making a production, I thought little of it.



I don't think many women have a desire to galavant around topless, but I know some would like to be able to take their top off at the beach or share pictures of themselves on their own social media pages without it then causing a ruckus. A friend had a video of her diving into her pool removed from Instagram because her top popped off when she hit the water and when she emerged her breasts were visible for a nanosecond. Had it been a boy nobody would have cared and would have focused on the awesomeness of the dive instead.




Ha, I see shirtless men almost every day because I live near the beach and go running or surfing there as part of my routine. I think in an area like Venice Beach (which is not the beach closest to me or that I favor) where there is more exhibitionist behavior and people trying to be provocative as part of the tourist attraction novelty, there'd be more women walking around topless if they were legally at liberty to do so. In other parts of LA those who wanted to take off their top probably only would while sunbathing. I doubt many would run topless, but they might run braless comfortably if they, ahem, pass the pencil test.

Whether sensible or not, it's very widespread on European beaches.

 

[Dave-W]

Or indeed that it's wrong to comment on what nonbelievers do in private?

I wish it were so, a fair few religionists could do with commenting less on such things

Ephesians 5:12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

"Done ... in secret" is one thing. The scripture says we are to keep silent on that. But when it becomes public and the ones who do so are wanting our affirmation for their doing so; that is another thing altogether.

 

[keith99]

Back in the dark ages when I was in college quite a few of the women would sunbathe topless, just to get rid of strap lines. No nipples showing as they were almost always face down, but it seems quite enough to disturb some people.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Back in the dark ages when I was in college quite a few of the women would sunbathe topless, just to get rid of strap lines. No nipples showing as they were almost always face down, but it seems quite enough to disturb some people.

I thought you lived waaaaaaaaay back in the era when it was scandalous for a lady to have her bare ankles on display.

Jk.

According to the LA Times article back in the 1970s Venice Beach permitted nudity for a while, and apparently the reason they disallowed it was the ruckus it caused because tourists treated it like a circus act. I don't know if you ever visited it then.

 

[ArtBlinked]

Alright so if I've got this right, this discussion is about whether women going topless is something that should be allowed in the states. And it's mainly based on the fact that men are allowed to do so.


Well, this is my view on it.

Rewind back to Adam and Eve please. God made them and they were naked and there wasn't any issues. Then they sinned and there became issues. God made them clothing. What kind of clothing? Did it cover their chests? Maybe...I'd say probably. Due to the fact that it covered their "nakedness".


Why do you think God made them clothing? Because it was needed. Due to sin.


Here's my argument. Men shouldn't be going topless. Women shouldn't be going topless. God made clothing for people and it was for a good reason.

And there we go! My second post. Does anybody agree with this?

 

[keith99]

I thought you lived waaaaaaaaay back in the era when it was scandalous for a lady to have her bare ankles on display.

Jk.

According to the LA Times article back in the 1970s Venice Beach permitted nudity for a while, and apparently the reason they disallowed it was the ruckus it caused because tourists treated it like a circus act. I don't know if you ever visited it then.

Yup,

Yup, nothing like a poodle skirt with bobby sox, rolled down, to expose a voluptuous 4 inches of unshaven ankle!

I don't recall Venice allowing nudity. There was a while when it was allowed at the far south end of Zuma. I'm not sure if that faded out or if the authorities did something to stop it. You had to either wade or swim in (wading low tide only) or take some cliff trails down. With fools lacking local knowledge it was only a matter of time until an expensive rescue or death.

I wonder if Blacks still is nude?

 

[Archivist]

Rewind back to Adam and Eve please. God made them and they were naked and there wasn't any issues. Then they sinned and there became issues. God made them clothing. What kind of clothing? Did it cover their chests? Maybe...I'd say probably. Due to the fact that it covered their "nakedness".

Why do you think God made them clothing? Because it was needed. Due to sin.

Here's my argument. Men shouldn't be going topless. Women shouldn't be going topless. God made clothing for people and it was for a good reason.

And there we go! My second post. Does anybody agree with this?

First, congratulations on your second CF post! Reps will be coming!

The fact is taht we don't know exactly what type of clothing was provided, except that they were made of animal skin. Depending on the version of the Bible they are identified as coats, garments, aprons and breeches.

I do agree with you on you point regarding both sexes going topless. I would not have a problem if the law was consistently applied to both men and women (as it once was). In my opinion either everyone should be allowed to go topless or everyone should not be allowed to do so. Lets just be consistent.

 

[Darkhorse]

I wonder if Blacks still is nude?

To my knowledge it is, even though nudity is technically not legal there anymore.

I've heard the nude beach I lived near in central California is also still used by nudists. I haven't been there for 10 years.

What's really disturbing is the increasing number of men wearing shirts for swimming at the Christian camp I visit each year. Wrong direction!

 

[Eudaimonist]

God made clothing for people and it was for a good reason.

Wait...what?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[keith99]

To my knowledge it is, even though nudity is technically not legal there anymore.

I've heard the nude beach I lived near in central California is also still used by nudists. I haven't been there for 10 years.

What's really disturbing is the increasing number of men wearing shirts for swimming at the Christian camp I visit each year. Wrong direction!

When I was a kid I went to YMCA mountain camp each summer for a week. Last day was a skinny dip!

Why? Because unless you are swimming in a racing suit it will get your clothes nasty on the way home and they wanted us to look sort of clean when we got home.

Don't know if and when it changed. My time as a leader had a different change, camps were co-ed and there a camp skinny dip would have had obvious problems.