Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

[Archivist]

What complaints? So far, it's mostly men who are wanting female toplessness to be a thing.

First, there have been women posting here but you just keep ignoring that.

Second, there is a big difference between "wanting female toplessness" and wanting women to have equal rights. In NY State women have the right to go topkess anyplace that men can go topless, and unlike other states that right cannot be taken away by local ordinance. Few women go topless, although as the Outdoor Co-Ed Topless Literary Appreciation Society is showing that is changing. But at least they have equal rights.

 

[Spiritlight]

its not going to help the clothing industry much but it will help the medical profession with work treating skin cancers and putting guys eyes back in their heads.

 

[Armoured]

its not going to help the clothing industry much but it will help the medical profession with work treating skin cancers and putting guys eyes back in their heads.

Yet those industries seem to do fine with men being able to go shirtless. Wierd.

 

[Archivist]

its not going to help the clothing industry much but it will help the medical profession with work treating skin cancers and putting guys eyes back in their heads.

The second issue wouldn't be a problem if it would become commonplace. Eventually it would just be the norm. As to skin cancer, do you honestly think that allowing women to remove a. Bikini top would really make a significant difference?

 

[Spiritlight]

The second issue wouldn't be a problem if it would become commonplace. Eventually it would just be the norm. As to skin cancer, do you honestly think that allowing women to remove a. Bikini top would really make a significant difference?

Here in Australia where the days are 40 degrees C presently.
The suns rays reflecting off bare white skin into mens eyes would be a driving hazzard and a skin one for girls. Then there is the question of perspiration absorbed by the shirt and what to do with it when that isn't there.

We dont need multiple threads starting about the sinfulness of body odour as a result of shirtlessness..

 

[Dave-W]

Because once again, women are held responsible for not causing men to sin, but the opposite doesn't apply. Women have to take responsibility for their own lust.

That rule was set up based on a millennia long held misunderstanding that women had no "lust" to deal with.

That understanding has only been straightened out beginning about a century ago. Something held as common knowledge for well over 2000 years takes a LONG time to be purged from society.

 

[Archivist]

Here in Australia where the days are 40 degrees C presently.
The suns rays reflecting off bare white skin into mens eyes would be a driving hazzard and a skin one for girls. Then there is the question of perspiration absorbed by the shirt and what to do with it when that isn't there.

We dont need multiple threads starting about the sinfulness of body odour as a result of shirtlessness..

Please provide statistics showing that accident rates increase in countries where women go topless.

 

[Archivist]

That rule was set up based on a millennia long held misunderstanding that women had no "lust" to deal with.

That understanding has only been straightened out beginning about a century ago. Something held as common knowledge for well over 2000 years takes a LONG time to be purged from society.

But change can happen quickly. Interracial marriage and same-sex marriage, both taboo in Ameeica until relatively recently, are both accepted by a majority of Americans now.

 

[Dave-W]

But change can happen quickly. Interracial marriage and same-sex marriage, both taboo in Ameeica until relatively recently, are both accepted by a majority of Americans now.

Some things do change quickly, but some do not.

Women going topless seems to be one of the latter. Probably for that to happen, female breasts need to be seen by the public at large as non-sexualized.

 

[Archivist]

Some things do change quickly, but some do not. Women going topless seems to be one of the latter. Probably for that to happen, female breasts need to be seen by the public at large as non-sexualized.

I'm not sure that I agree. Topless beaches became the norm in Europe almost overnight. The Swiss are pretty conservative but I remember being told when I last visited that going top free is accepted in all parts of Switzerland including central Geneva. Public saunas in the Netherlands are mixed gender and nudity therein is the norm. I suspect that if women going topless became the norm in the US we would have an adjustment period and then it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Truthfrees]

I've often resented the fact that, when it hits 35 degrees Celsius or more, if the setting allows, my husband can remove his shirt to cool off, but I can't.

I would absolutely do it if I didn't know it would cause complete chaos, but because of cultural norms, and because I know that the results of me doing so would be extremely uncomfortable, I don't. So I sweat instead.

Because once again, women are held responsible for not causing men to sin, but the opposite doesn't apply. Women have to take responsibility for their own lust.

Are you saying you would choose to go topless rather than wear a swim suit top?

Are you saying that you believe you mother, sisters, daughters, etc should all go topless rather than wear a swim suit top?

IMO a swim suit top or halter top would keep you just as cool as your shirtless husband, would it not?

 

[Archivist]

Are you saying that you believe you mother, sisters, daughters, etc should all go topless rather than wear a swim suit top?

But the question isn't whether they should or should not go topless. That is a personal choice. The question is whether they should have the right to go topless.

 

[Truthfrees]

So the passage you quoted is talking about the modesty of the apparel.. Don't wear fancy clothing is how I read that...

Modesty: behavior, manner, or appearance intended to avoid impropriety or indecency.

Modesty covers more than the narrowed meaning you are taking.

 

[Truthfrees]

But the question isn't whether they should or should not go topless. That is a personal choice. The question is whether they should have the right to go topless.

Before God or before man?

We no longer live but Christ lives in us, so the life we now live we live for Christ. Galatians 2:20-21

Do all things for the glory of GOD.1 Corinthians 10:31, Colossians 3:17

Find out what pleases the Lord. Ephesians 5:10

I guess it depends on who you are living for.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Before God or before man?

We no longer live but Christ lives in us, so the life we now live we live for Christ. Galatians 2:20-21

Do all things for the glory of GOD.1 Corinthians 10:31, Colossians 3:17

Find out what pleases the Lord. Ephesians 5:10

I guess it depends on who you are living for.

We're talking about secular law. Gods need not be invoked.

 

[Archivist]

Before God or before man? We no longer live but Christ lives in us, so the life we now live we live for Christ. Galatians 2:20-21 Do all things for the glory of GOD.1 Corinthians 10:31, Colossians 3:17 Find out what pleases the Lord. Ephesians 5:10 I guess it depends on who you are living for.

ToddNotTodd is correct, this is a secular matter. However, I don't see anything in any of the Scripture you quoted saying that it is improper for women to go topless in public.

 

[Tallguy88]

Ah, so the Muslims are right to demand women wear the chador, and the men need take no accountability of their own lustful natures? Good to know.

Check your catechism. This is Catholic theology, too.

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor's tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep's clothing.87

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"90​

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

 

[Tallguy88]

Mister, you're again showing your double standard. Do you think it's sinful for men to go topless at the beach, cause it might cause some women or even some other men to lust after them? How come you don't expect men to stop & think about whether their being shirtless will cause "weaker" sisters & brothers to stumble?

There are men who get turned on by the sight of bare knees. Who get turned on by the shape of a lady's butt no matter if her jeans are tight or not. Even if all women wore burkas all the time there'd still be men who'd find something to lust over. Personally I don't view men as these pathetic weaklings who can't just take control over their own eyes & look away from what causes them to sin. It's not a mom's responsibility to not feed her hungry baby or to feed it from on top of a toilet (would YOU want to be fed that way?) just cause some man doesn't want to turn his head.

Don't start that "mister" thing with me, unless you want me to talk down to you too, "young lady."

It has to do with intent and knowledge and social situations. For example, you wouldn't walk around Walmart in a string bikini, it's not an appropriate situation to do so. Doing so willfully is a sign that you are vain and intending to cause scandal. But doing so on a beach where it is normal is not scandalous.

I've already said that men shouldn't be bare chested in public outside of appropriate situations, either. For the same reasons as women shouldn't. So it's not a double standard.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I've already said that men shouldn't be bare chested in public outside of appropriate situations, either. For the same reasons as women shouldn't. So it's not a double standard.

Well, if you're saying that a man can go topless on a beach and a woman can't, that's kind of the definition of a double standard...

 

[Tallguy88]

Well, if you're saying that a man can go topless on a beach and a woman can't, that's kind of the definition of a double standard...

A beach is likely to be an appropriate situation, unless it is specifically a family friendly beach.