Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

OGM · May 21, 2015

ananda said:
Context, like my prior post explains.

In context of a documentary, it is harmonious to show African breasts as an natural part of the expression of their African culture. In context of a Super Bowl - an expression of American culture - it is improper.

So if I showed a prime documentary showing the natural Australian, French or Spanish topless women on beaches, which is a natural part of the expression of their European and
Australian cultures...it would be harmonious to show them on U.S. prime time broadcast television...just like showing African breasts???? Really?? Seriously?

I think the FCC would fine the broadcasters...and many people would complain. Even though showing the Australians and European women were in the proper culture contest on public beaches.

ananda · May 21, 2015

OGM said:
So if I showed a prime documentary showing the natural Australian, French or Spanish topless women on beaches, which is a natural part of the expression of their European and
Australian cultures...it would be harmonious to show them on U.S. prime time broadcast television...just like showing African breasts???? Really?? Seriously?

I think the FCC would fine the broadcasters...and many people would complain. Even though showing the Australians and European women were in the proper culture contest on public beaches.

Was the old documentary about African topless beaches?

OGM · May 21, 2015

ananda said:
Was the old documentary about African topless beaches?

The Africans were do many things...including being on a beach, Africa has a huge coastline...the Europeans were on a regular public beach. The show had to be edited. Now you know what would happen if a scene was included with a WHITE South African on the beach vs. the Black Africans on the beach that were gathering the fish. Even the NY Executives that were and are still my clients admit it is basically a matter of Black vs. White.

The Golden Rule is that no White breasts on U.S. broadcast prime time. The reason why they have allowed NatGeo and PBS to do it all of those years is because they did not break the Golden Rule. In other words...African breasts would not be considered "sexy" and those the U.S. audience would not complain. The execs are right.

In France, Spain and Australia women have been going to public beaches for years. So even if you showed a quick scene of a public beach in it's proper cultural contest you would have to blur out the Caucasian breasts. A scene of African women on a beach would not have the same requirement. It is all about what and who is perceived as being sexy.

Funny isn't...

MiniEmu · May 21, 2015

I do not understand is the opposition to the showing of breasts. It is one thing to say that, as Christians, we should not go around allowing various parts of our anatomy out without sufficient covering. I can at least understand that position, I can see the logic in teaching fellow Christians that according to their interpretation of scripture/application of the guidance provided to the culture they live in the body (breasts included) should be covered. I vividly remember a very old priest giving a sermon which mostly focused on lecturing young men that modest dress applied to them in equal measure.

To demand that everyone be bound by this is something I do not understand. It may provide a source of temptation, but again it's down to the Christian to resist this.

Regarding documentaries, breasts and double standards... there is a school of thought which believes the sole reason it's acceptable to show certain cultures and their distinct lack of clothing is to emphasise the differences. Some even comment that as nudity is viewed as an uncivilised state of being this nakedness is almost used to perpetuate the belief that somehow the acceptance of nudity is directly linked to the civilisation of society. These thoughts are not exactly pie in the sky when you take an actual look at the amount of nudity censoring in documentaries compared to the society they're capturing for film.

Mind you, I've seen more than a few uncensored documentaries on European nudists. The majority of censored nudity seems to come from across the pond ...

ananda · May 21, 2015

OGM said:
The Africans were do many things...including being on a beach, Africa has a huge coastline...the Europeans were on a regular public beach. The show had to be edited. Now you know what would happen if a scene was included with a WHITE South African on the beach vs. the Black Africans on the beach that were gathering the fish. Even the NY Executives that were and are still my clients admit it is basically a matter of Black vs. White.

The Golden Rule is that no White breasts on U.S. broadcast prime time. The reason why they have allowed NatGeo and PBS to do it all of those years is because they did not break the Golden Rule. In other words...African breasts would not be considered "sexy" and those the U.S. audience would not complain. The execs are right.

In France, Spain and Australia women have been going to public beaches for years. So even if you showed a quick scene of a public beach in it's proper cultural contest you would have to blur out the Caucasian breasts. A scene of African women on a beach would not have the same requirement. It is all about what and who is perceived as being sexy.

Funny isn't...

Those are potential cultural expectations, like I wrote.

OGM · May 21, 2015

ananda said:
Those are potential cultural expectations, like I wrote.

Code phrase for racial?

ananda · May 21, 2015

OGM said:
Code phrase for racial?

Nope, cultural means cultural.

OGM · May 21, 2015

ananda said:
Nope, cultural means cultural.

So white breast on a beach is no-go and black breasts on a beach in culturally okay. Thus the culture is indeed using race to determine what is acceptable. Just as the culture allows naked male breasts on the beach and television but not naked female breasts. Thus the culture is using gender to determine acceptability.

It is just the way it is.

ananda · May 21, 2015

OGM said:
So white breast on a beach is no-go and black breasts on a beach in culturally okay. Thus the culture is indeed using race to determine what is acceptable. Just as the culture allows naked male breasts on the beach and television but not naked female breasts. Thus the culture is using gender to determine acceptability.

It is just the way it is.

The culture determines what is or is not acceptable.

OGM · May 21, 2015

ananda said:
The culture determines what is or is not acceptable.

But the culture bases it determination on several things. Just look at male topless standards of 100 years ago. Thankful things change as cultures are influenced by other cultures and standards change. But don't assume race and gender are NOT factors.

OGM · May 21, 2015

For the past 40 or 50 years it was okay to show a Black African woman on U.S. television breastfeeding in public on a documentry. In the year 2015...it would be very problematic showing a White Woman breastfeeding in public on U.S. television. See what I mean?

ananda · May 21, 2015

OGM said:
But the culture bases it determination on several things. Just look at male topless standards of 100 years ago. Thankful things change as cultures are influenced by other cultures and standards change. But don't assume race and gender are NOT factors.

I didn't assume race and gender are not factors. Both are integral parts of how a culture self-defines itself. Racial preferences included. It is a simple matter of fact.

OGM · May 21, 2015

Yeah...it is a weird double-standard isn't?

ananda · May 22, 2015

OGM said:
Yeah...it is a weird double-standard isn't?

What do you mean?

Rationalt · May 22, 2015

ananda said:
What do you mean?

I suspect It is automatic bot like response.

Eudaimonist · May 22, 2015

Aldebaran said:
Common decency doesn't change.

In fact, it does. Or is it still indecent when a woman shows her ankle?

Do you also think people should be allowed to run around naked in public.

I would be fine with that.

I don't have any problem with laws that restrict nudity to certain areas, such as to nude beaches. I personally would not be opposed to public nudity unless there were health code issues involved. For instance, I would not want nudity inside of subways where there is a lot of foot traffic, or nude chefs at restaurants.

However, as long as people bring their own towels and keep hygienic, then public nudity is fine with me. Places where people could go nude are, for instance, designated parks and beaches.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2014/04/14/nudity-goes-legal-in-munich/

eudaimonia,

Mark

Dave-W · May 22, 2015

OGM said:
Yeah really...Even in the 1960's Nat Geo would show breasts on Africans during prime time.

Not sure if it was on the Nat Geo channel or PBS, but only about 2 or 3 years ago they aired a documentary on the Zoe Tribe in the Upper Amazon basin. (Northern Brazil) This tribe wears no clothes at all and spend a lot of time up in the rain forest canopy. So they had shots of women's bare crotches as they climbed the trees. Surprizing stuff.

Yet during a Super Bowl partial breast they wanted to fine everybody.

That was CBS who aired that "wardrobe malfunction." I found it interesting that just a few weeks before said Super Bowl, that CBS aired an episoce of CSI where they showed a dead young woman on the ME's table and her breasts were clearly shown. No one said anything, but I was rather surprized. I think in the wake of the very big fine they had to pay, they went back and blurred out the body parts in question.

OGM · May 22, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
Not sure if it was on the Nat Geo channel or PBS, but only about 2 or 3 years ago they aired a documentary on the Zoe Tribe in the Upper Amazon basin. (Northern Brazil) This tribe wears no clothes at all and spend a lot of time up in the rain forest canopy. So they had shots of women's bare crotches as they climbed the trees. Surprizing stuff.

I remember the National Geographic documentaries airing on CBS.

That was CBS who aired that "wardrobe malfunction." I found it interesting that just a few weeks before said Super Bowl, that CBS aired an episoce of CSI where they showed a dead young woman on the ME's table and her breasts were clearly shown. No one said anything, but I was rather surprized. I think in the wake of the very big fine they had to pay, they went back and blurred out the body parts in question.

Funny thing about the wardrobe malfunction. I worked for many large media producers. Our advice to CBS was not to pay the FCC one penny of that fine because they did nothing wrong. We were met with some resistance but CBS decided not to pay. That was 2004. Jump to 2011 and the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals threw out the fine. Yet the FCC still tried again in 2012. They lost! The FCC was very silly to think about fighting for a fine on this non-event.

Archivist · May 22, 2015

OGM said:
Yeah...it is a weird double-standard isn't?

We had a case in Pennsylvania a couple years ago where a "woman" was flashing her breasts as shoppers at Walmart. The police arrested "her," only to learn that she was a male who dresseda nd lived as a woman and had sizable breast implants. He looked very much like a woman, but because he was male cahrges of indecent exposure were dropped. They did get him for resisting arrest.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why this would be indecent for a woman to do but but acceptable for a man to do, particularly given that he had larger breasts than many women?

OGM · May 22, 2015

Archivist said:
We had a case in Pennsylvania a couple years ago where a "woman" was flashing her breasts as shoppers at Walmart. The police arrested "her," only to learn that she was a male who dresseda nd lived as a woman and had sizable breast implants. He looked very much like a woman, but because he was male cahrges of indecent exposure were dropped. They did get him for resisting arrest.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why this would be indecent for a woman to do but but acceptable for a man to do, particularly given that he had larger breasts than many women?

Very good question...obviously the police and/or prosecutor felt that the law was not applicable to male breasts...no matter the size. Yet a woman with very small natural breasts would be charged.

Now I wonder if the man would have been charged if the police found out he had legally changed to a woman? I don't know Pennsylvania laws well enough to even guess.

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