Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

[blackribbon]

Then why don't they have this problem at the topless beaches in Europe and Australia?

We have nude beaches. However, the vast majority of women do not choose to go topless, nor care to go topless. Even in the "societies" that allow it.

I do not see that this is a big issue.

 

[blackribbon]

Are those that are wanting topless to become socially acceptable just as willing to see 300lb women or grandma walking around topless? How about when standing on a crowded bus and they are pressed up against you. I say "lets keep EVERYONE'S shirts on in public"

 

[PsychoSarah]

Are those that are wanting topless to become socially acceptable just as willing to see 300lb women or grandma walking around topless? How about when standing on a crowded bus and they are pressed up against you. I say "lets keep EVERYONE'S shirts on in public"

Agreed, I do not appreciate the hairy, flabby men any more than I appreciate the hairy, flabby women. The number of people I want to see without a shirt on is astronomically smaller than the people I don't.

 

[Armoured]

Are those that are wanting topless to become socially acceptable just as willing to see 300lb women or grandma walking around topless? How about when standing on a crowded bus and they are pressed up against you. I say "lets keep EVERYONE'S shirts on in public"

Yet ugly men and grandpa are allowed to, even though it's not aesthetically pleasing. So we is "some of the women going topless might be unattractive" a valid reason when discussing women?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yet ugly men and grandpa are allowed to, even though it's not aesthetically pleasing. So we is "some of the women going topless might be unattractive" a valid reason when discussing women?

-_- they were arguing that everyone should keep the shirts on.

 

[blackribbon]

Agreed, I do not appreciate the hairy, flabby men any more than I appreciate the hairy, flabby women. The number of people I want to see without a shirt on is astronomically smaller than the people I don't.

I don't want to see a bare man's chest anywhere but in my bedroom. I like the health code (and note it is a HEALTH code) that says "no shoes, no shirt, no service". I'd be fine with making that a universal code for everywhere but the pool and beach...or the privacy of your own home (not mowing the lawn...IN the home).

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't want to see a bare man's chest anywhere but in my bedroom. I like the health code (and note it is a HEALTH code) that says "no shoes, no shirt, no service". I'd be fine with making that a universal code for everywhere but the pool and beach...or the privacy of your own home (not mowing the lawn...IN the home).

Meh, I would rather some of the guys and girls at the beach be more covered to. Return to the 1920s full body suits I say XD

Walk around naked as the day you were born in your own home, I don't care, I just don't want to see it.

 

[Conscious Z]

The thread is about why women should not be allowed to go topless. So far "men might get their jollies from looking" or variations thereof appears to be the only offered reason.

That has nothing to do with our discussion, though. You claimed that there is no difference between the way a man would look at a topless woman and the way a woman would look at a topless man. I disagreed with that because it is false, but for some reason you took my disagreement to mean that I think women shouldn't be able to go topless.

It is possible to think that men look at topless women differently than women do topless men and think that women should be able to go topless.

 

[OGM]

Some countries settle it by having separate swimming areas for each gender. Separated enough where one gender can't see the other.

I for one don't want it to come to that here.

 

[Armoured]

I don't want to see a bare man's chest anywhere but in my bedroom. I like the health code (and note it is a HEALTH code) that says "no shoes, no shirt, no service". I'd be fine with making that a universal code for everywhere but the pool and beach...or the privacy of your own home (not mowing the lawn...IN the home).

I, personally, agree. My point here is that whatever the standard is, it should apply to everyone.

 

[Armoured]

That has nothing to do with our discussion, though. You claimed that there is no difference between the way a man would look at a topless woman and the way a woman would look at a topless man. I disagreed with that because it is false, but for some reason you took my disagreement to mean that I think women shouldn't be able to go topless.

It is possible to think that men look at topless women differently than women do topless men and think that women should be able to go topless.

Ok.

 

[Eudaimonist]

At the nude beaches I've been to the majority of people were old and not particularly easy on the eyes, but it's easy to just deal with that. It's not that difficult.

Maybe we should just lock up all unattractive people? Make them wear burkas?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Archivist]

I, personally, agree. My point here is that whatever the standard is, it should apply to everyone.

Excellent. That was my original purpose in starting this thread. The opening sentence in the OP reads as follows:

"With the arrival of warm weather in the US, we again face the double standard of allowing men, but--in most places--not allowing women to go topless in public. Why not?"

This thread was not meant to discuss whether women should go topless or not. That is an individual decision, just as it is an individual decision for men. This thread is about rights, not actions.

I'm still waiting for anyone to provide a valid reason as to why only men should have the right to go topless in public and why it should be illegal for women to do what men commonly do.

 

[Archivist]

We have nude beaches. However, the vast majority of women do not choose to go topless, nor care to go topless. Even in the "societies" that allow it. I do not see that this is a big issue.

The difference is that those women who chose to go topless don't risk arrest or fines for doing what men commonly do.

 

[Dave-W]

Do women really WANT to go topless here in the US?

If not - this whole thread is pointless.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Do women really WANT to go topless here in the US?

If not - this whole thread is pointless.

Not really. The culture can change in time, and freedom is always an issue.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Archivist]

Do women really WANT to go topless here in the US? If not - this whole thread is pointless.

No, it is most certainly not pointless.

Please go back and read the OP. Read what I just wrote in my post 233. This thread was not meant to discuss whether women should go topless or not. That is an individual decision. This thread is about rights, not actions.

If a woman goes topless in public in most places in America she will face fines or imprisonment or both. No one in this thread has yet provided a valid reason for that.

 

[SuperCloud]

The difference is that those women who chose to go topless don't risk arrest or fines for doing what men commonly do.

Arch, who cares? (Well... apparently you do).

When are crack smokers going to get the same equal protection under the law as alcohol drinkers?

That's what I thought.

Woman being arrested for being topless is not a massive billion dollar issue. American women are not being arrested in the tens of thousands because they are being oppressed by not freely displaying their breasts to all the world.

I think I have a rather impressive looking penis. Why can't I walk around Chicago and New York openly displaying it so all the women in Chicago and New York can benefit and grow from gazing upon its masterpiece?

I'm curious, are you a nudist? Because you seem pretty Evangelical and militant in your quest to have 16 year-old girls and 70 year-old women walking around topless.

I'll grant you people are born naked and the naked body in and of itself is not sinful. And I'm certainly not against seeing more naked women. An unclothed woman is like looking under the hood of car before purchasing a car. Especially in this day an age of push-up-bras and false eyelashes, wigs, pants with pads in the seat so the but looks bigger etc.

But one characteristic that distinguishes humans from every other animal on earth is that we wear clothing. And we've even gotten fashionable with it.

 

[Archivist]

Arch, who cares? (Well... apparently you do).

Well, given that the matter has been before courts in many states, including New York, Georgia, New Jersey, Texas and Florida, apparently somebody cares.

When are crack smokers going to get the same equal protection under the law as alcohol drinkers? That's what I thought.

You are equating a woman going topless in public with smoking crack? You mean that you are sol blind that you cannot see any difference between these two things?

Woman being arrested for being topless is not a massive billion dollar issue.

Fortunately rights in America are not determined based on whether something is a "massive billion dollar issue."

American women are not being arrested in the tens of thousands because they are being oppressed by not freely displaying their breasts to all the world.

But every year some women are arrested for going topless in public. You don't seem to get this--it is a matter of equal rights.

I think I have a rather impressive looking penis. Why can't I walk around Chicago and New York openly displaying it so all the women in Chicago and New York can benefit and grow from gazing upon its masterpiece?

No one is proposing in this thread that either men women be permitted to go nude in public. This thread is about women to have the same right to go topless as is enjoyed by men.

I'm curious, are you a nudist?

No, I'm not. Was at St. Martin on a cruise last August. Didn't visit the nude beach on the French side. Could have but no desire to do so.

Because you seem pretty Evangelical and militant in your quest to have 16 year-old girls and 70 year-old women walking around topless.

I deserve an apology for that, because it is an outright lie. Where in this thread have I stated that I want to see anyone of any age walking around topless. You apparently don't understand the difference between having the right to do something and actually doing it. I don't own a gun, but I would be out protesting if the government ever tried to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

I'll grant you people are born naked and the naked body in and of itself is not sinful. And I'm certainly not against seeing more naked women. An unclothed woman is like looking under the hood of car before purchasing a car. Especially in this day an age of push-up-bras and false eyelashes, wigs, pants with pads in the seat so the but looks bigger etc.

And, again, this thread is not about nudity. You cannot seem to grasp that concept.

But one characteristic that distinguishes humans from every other animal on earth is that we wear clothing. And we've even gotten fashionable with it.

And, again, this thread is not about nudity. You cannot seem to grasp that concept.

 

[SuperCloud]

Well, given that the matter has been before courts in many states, including New York, Georgia, New Jersey, Texas and Florida, apparently somebody cares.

I guess so. But I doubt many.

You are equating a woman going topless in public with smoking crack? You mean that you are sol blind that you cannot see any difference between these two things?

I wasn't equating the two. I was asking--in terms of pressing concerns from the violence in Mexico to the USA with the billions spent in war and incarceration--when are crack smokers going to be given equal rights, equal protection under the law, as alcohol drinkers?

The violence, incarcerations, massive amounts spent in tax dollars, through out South America into the USA over drug laws and war on drugs, seems to be a more pressing issue than two men 69ing each other or the right of women to flaunt their naked breasts down the streets. But Americans who like to say, "Hey, man, sex is no big deal" seem to massively contradict themselves constantly focusing on expanding rights related to sexual issues.

That's my observation. Cultural observation.

Again, not that I'm against nude women or just clothed women with naked breasts bouncing around outside on morning jogs. It's not hard to convince me to look at a pair of naked female breasts. Especially if they're good looking.

Fortunately rights in America are not determined based on whether something is a "massive billion dollar issue."

It probably ought. We could reduce a lot of domestic violence in the USA if we made alcohol illegal and spent billions on alcohol prohibition war fighting the criminal gangs that would sell the newly illegal products. All the billions pent on arresting alcohol drinkers, alcoholics, and putting them in prison.

But we would save a lot of American women from being stabbed, shot, or stomped brutally by their drunken boyfriends and husbands.

But that would be a "massive billion dollar issue" and I doubt Americans want to fight a perpetual, never-ending, annual multibillion war for that.

In contrast the amount of money spent on the war against women walking around topless is rather small.

But every year some women are arrested for going topless in public. You don't seem to get this--it is a matter of equal rights.

I get that your argument is premised on it being a matter of equal rights. Equal protection under the law. But so is crack smoking or snorting powder heroin relative to drinking beer, vodka, whiskey and so forth.

No one is proposing in this thread that either men women be permitted to go nude in public. This thread is about women to have the same right to go topless as is enjoyed by men.

I know what you're saying. Although, I was referring to walking completely nude, but rather clothed with my penis hanging out. I was being a mix of serious and humorous. Or trying to be.

(Actually, during the hot summer months men can develop rashes around their genitals due to the high humidity in that clothed region of the body. I've often had to use athletes foot cream around that region during the summer, after getting out of the shower. With no lie and in all seriousness... I've often wished I could walk bottomless outside in summer and even spring winds just so the healthy air could wash over that region. But due to laws and customs I can't do that in the city. Neighbors would be mortified. )

No, I'm not. Was at St. Martin on a cruise last August. Didn't visit the nude beach on the French side. Could have but no desire to do so.

Better man than me. Curiosity would have gotten the best of me.

I deserve an apology for that, because it is an outright lie. Where in this thread have I stated that I want to see anyone of any age walking around topless. You apparently don't understand the difference between having the right to do something and actually doing it. I don't own a gun, but I would be out protesting if the government ever tried to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

Alright, I apologize. I didn't mean it to be taken as offensively as you did. I just reasoned that it would logically follow that some 16 and 70 year-old females would be walking around topless. And I reasoned that you must have known that would result--logically--if female toplessness were legalized.

And you are right, I misstated your argument some. You're not arguing that you want to see x, y, z... you're arguing x, y, z ought be legally allowed per equal rights or equal protection under the law.

Nonetheless, I'm curious about male motives on the issue. For right or wrong I figure people are most emotionally invested in those things that more or less affect them in some way. If you smoke cigarettes I figure you're more emotionally invested in not getting cigarettes made illegal. (Since I don't smoke cigarettes, part of me could care less if they were made illegal.)

And I'm not emotionally invested in women being allowed or not allowed to go topless. If they do I'll look at their breasts and form individual judgments about the aesthetic quality of each pair of breasts on each woman exposing them I see. If it remains illegal for women to go topless than I'll just live with that as normal, as I always have, and it'll be no big deal to me. I've got more of a shrug about the issue.

And, again, this thread is not about nudity. You cannot seem to grasp that concept.



And, again, this thread is not about nudity. You cannot seem to grasp that concept.

Okay, you are correct, to an extent, because it is about partial nudity.