Why should one care if ''God'' exists?

[Deidre32]

Oh, I don't know about that. Before I became a Christian, I had started to believe in spiritual things and thought that the dreams we have at night were a glimpse into the existence we go into when we die. I had some lucid dreams that seemed very real and then I started looking deeper into that idea. I really liked the idea more than the idea that someone higher than me was in charge and that I don't create my own spiritual world as I had hoped and believed. So Christianity wasn't what I wanted it to be, but from what I've seen, it seems to be what is reality.

Waaaaait a minute. Were you an atheist prior to becoming a Christian?
Lol

YES exactly. So-called "divine morality" always reflects what's culturally acceptable as the belief system is adopted. There are so many parts of the Bible that now get immediately disregarded for the sheer barbarism of such notions. Societal standards evolve along with people.

I'm also an Ex-Christian Apostate, breaking away from an entire childhood and adolescence of indoctrination. Hilariously enough, I know more about the Bible now than I ever did as a believer.

Lol! Yea, right? Me too. Well I think what happens is when you go on a path towards deconversion (at first unintentionally), you start exploring the parts of the faith that you never looked closely at as a Christian. As a Christian, my faith was enough.

 

[Noxot]

religion is a product of spirit that is decaying. truth that has to be adapted to a multitude of people are only able to receive as much as they are capable of receiving.... therefore people view God in different ways. this is also one reason that Jesus says that the kingdom of God is inside of you. the better the eye the more clearly you shall see God. the truth is crucified in this world and it becomes a world religion that veils us from seeing God clearly. the world simply can not receive God as he is but we can receive God as much as we want to.

 

[Deidre32]

religion is a product of spirit that is decaying. truth that has to be adapted to a multitude of people are only able to receive as much as they are capable of receiving.... therefore people view God in different ways. this is also one reason that Jesus says that the kingdom of God is inside of you.

But yet, people (I did at one time) worship Jesus. The challenge with Christianity is that Jesus isn't a concept or a metaphor. He was a real person whom Christians worship. Linking divinity with him. It is apparent that Christianity is clear on that Jesus is the only righteous path to "God."

 

[Aldebaran]

Waaaaait a minute. Were you an atheist prior to becoming a Christian?
Lol

I don't know if I would say I was an atheist or not, but I didn't see God as being all that real. What I did see as real was the concept of alternate dimensions that we could transition into at death, and sometimes even during our current life. I think a method called transcendational meditation was one way to do it. I never got the hang of that, nor mastering how to enter a state of lucid dreaming. It just happened by itself, and only several times. But this whole thing opened up to me the idea of there being a spirit world and that the "here and now" isn't all there is.

 

[UnReAL13]

Lol! Yea, right? Me too. Well I think what happens is when you go on a path towards deconversion (at first unintentionally), you start exploring the parts of the faith that you never looked closely at as a Christian. As a Christian, my faith was enough.

Blind faith is dangerous and shouldn't be the modus operandi for calculating decisions in one's life, especially concerning life or death matters. The church certainly encourages blind faith for many situations, as well as discouraging critical thinking of the Bible itself. I feel this is the only way for them to keep so many people under their spell, because any reasonable analysis of the text would instantly raise several questions and concerns.

religion is a product of spirit that is decaying. truth that has to be adapted to a multitude of people are only able to receive as much as they are capable of receiving.... therefore people view God in different ways. this is also one reason that Jesus says that the kingdom of God is inside of you. the better the eye the more clearly you shall see God. the truth is crucified in this world and it becomes a world religion that veils us from seeing God clearly. the world simply can not receive God as he is but we can receive God as much as we want to.

In all fairness, I've come to realize that Religion and Spirituality aren't synonymous terms, and there's certainly ways for Atheists to embrace Spirituality. Some pagan religions like Wicca and Thelema are very Atheistic at their core, and focus on Nature and Science respectively. In essence, Spirituality represents whatever someone finds Sacred in their lives. Plus if "god" is actually just a metaphor for the Universe itself then perhaps that's what the Bible means? Technically we're all stardust, composed of every part of the cosmos. Maybe there is a deeper, underlying "esoteric truth" of reality that every religion has attempted to hint at.

 

[Noxot]

But yet, people (I did at one time) worship Jesus. The challenge with Christianity is that Jesus isn't a concept or a metaphor. He was a real person whom Christians worship. Linking divinity with him. It is apparent that Christianity is clear on that Jesus is the only righteous path to "God."

God adapts himself to people as much as he has to in order to lift them up to a greater understanding of self and others and thus to a better way of living in this world. to be honest Christianity is only a baby of the full adult it could be. it could have replaced all nations of the world and ended all wars but humanity and even the Christians were often not willing. and when most are not willing to reach for paradise it makes it harder for others to live in paradise which is one reason Jesus was murdered by religious, political, and the common crowd of people. in his place they desired to set free a thief and a murderer. it is not that Jesus is evil or wrong in the things said about him, it is just that people are not willing to fully receive the truths that he expressed.

he is the only righteous path to God but what people don't realize is that they separate themselves from him who is the only right path. if you remember, according to the bible that there is only one seed. and this seed is the divine spark that is inside all people and is the reason why I say their innermost self loves God regardless of the temporal things they go through.

 

[Deidre32]

God adapts himself to people as much as he has to in order to lift them up to a greater understanding of self and others and thus to a better way of living in this world. to be honest Christianity is only a baby of the full adult it could be. it could have replaced all nations of the world and ended all wars but humanity and even the Christians were often not willing. and when most are not willing to reach for paradise it makes it harder for others to live in paradise which is one reason Jesus was murdered by religious, political, and the common crowd of people. in his place they desired to set free a thief and a murderer. it is not that Jesus is evil or wrong in the things said about him, it is just that people are not willing to fully receive the truths that he expressed.

he is the only righteous path to God but what people don't realize is that they separate themselves from him who is the only right path. if you remember, according tot eh bible that there is only one seed. and this seed is the divine spark that is inside all people and is the reason why I say their innermost self loves God regardless of the temporal things they go through.

With due respect, how do you know this?

 

[Noxot]

In all fairness, I've come to realize that Religion and Spirituality aren't synonymous terms, and there's certainly ways for Atheists to embrace Spirituality. Some pagan religions like Wicca and Thelema are very Atheistic at their core, and focus on Nature and Science respectively. In essence, Spirituality represents whatever someone finds Sacred in their lives. Plus if "god" is actually just a metaphor for the Universe itself then perhaps that's what the Bible means? Technically we're all stardust, composed of every part of the cosmos. Maybe there is a deeper, underlying "esoteric truth" of reality that every religion has attempted to hint at.

Christianity argues that God is love. imagine a world where everyone loves everyone. it would look completely different and all burdens would cease. then we would be able to understand a bit more clearly why some people call God "Love". this "Love" appears to be a kind of good ordering of reality, of perfect harmony that is higher than that of the natural world of struggle, necessity, and survival. therefore I argue that there are higher dimensional expressions of this universe in a higher form and order and the universe that we dwell in is more like a shadowy expression of in-completion, like a falling away of reality from a good state into a worse. but this reality reflects the internal states of our souls. in Christianity the human person is very important which is one of the main reasons that God came to the earth as a human. take away humanities true dignity and you will never see a reality ordered by love. and that is the reality we all dwell in to some degree.... a reality where humans have lost their dignity and are reduced to all kinds of ways of being that are not worth living in.

inasmuch as one loves one is dwelling in higher spiritual realities. what is sacred to a person will dictate how they live. whatever someone believes is truth will control how they conduct their lives and see reality. lots of people in this time believe in a reality where people don't really matter in the grand scheme of things and this causes them to view how reality operates and functions in certain ways such as by the cold ideals of calculations of mathematics and by the smashing together of atoms to see what happens. a reality view based only in cold and dead logic with no meaningful purpose will never introduce people into higher states of functioning such as divine love. love that only loves a few is love and malice combined. nations are a product of favoritism and pride, they are a product of what happens when one loves some people but not others.

higher forms of the expressions that humanity creates are to some degree ingrained with higher realities and expressions of being. creativity not controlled so much by desires for money or reward but most of all done because it is ones expression to the world hold many hints of a grand reality that they have to some degree tapped into.

 

[Noxot]

With due respect, how do you know this?

I experience it every day and in myself as well.

 

[hownow]

Apropos of nothing (or everything?) I saw an awesome bumper sticker the other day:

"God is too big to fit into one little religion."​

 

[UnReAL13]

Christianity argues that God is love. imagine a world where everyone loves everyone. it would look completely different and all burdens would cease. then we would be able to understand a bit more clearly why some people call God "Love". this "Love" appears to be a kind of good ordering of reality, of perfect harmony that is higher than that of the natural world of struggle, necessity, and survival. therefore I argue that there are higher dimensional expressions of this universe in a higher form and order and the universe that we dwell in is more like a shadowy expression of in-completion, like a falling away of reality from a good state into a worse. but this reality reflects the internal states of our souls. in Christianity the human person is very important which is one of the main reasons that God came to the earth as a human. take away humanities true dignity and you will never see a reality ordered by love. and that is the reality we all dwell in to some degree.... a reality where humans have lost their dignity and are reduced to all kinds of ways of being that are not worth living in.

inasmuch as one loves one is dwelling in higher spiritual realities. what is sacred to a person will dictate how they live. whatever someone believes is truth will control how they conduct their lives and see reality. lots of people in this time believe in a reality where people don't really matter in the grand scheme of things and this causes them to view how reality operates and functions in certain ways such as by the cold ideals of calculations of mathematics and by the smashing together of atoms to see what happens. a reality view based only in cold and dead logic with no meaningful purpose will never introduce people into higher states of functioning such as divine love. love that only loves a few is love and malice combined. nations are a product of favoritism and pride, they are a product of what happens when one loves some people but not others.

higher forms of the expressions that humanity creates are to some degree ingrained with higher realities and expressions of being. creativity not controlled so much by desires for money or reward but most of all done because it is ones expression to the world hold many hints of a grand reality that they have to some degree tapped into.

The concept of "love" is also very subjective. There's no universal standard for what love should be either.

I'm not opposed to the idea of higher realities, a multiverse, many worlds, or even the simulation argument. We could be actually living in The Matrix. Physicist James Gates even accidentally discovered internet browser codes embedded in the formulas for string theory. It's definitely possible, and according to some arguments it's highly probable. Way more probable than a deity that creates all humans from 2 people magically molded out of dust through generations of incest and codemns them to Sin for disobeying the deity's order not to seek knowledge via a magic apple and talking snake. Then to redeem his own creation, the deity must impregnate a virgin to become his own father so he can kill himself.

God loves his own creation so much that he had to drown most of them in the Flood. Not exactly the kind of "love" I'm looking for. Love is also just an idea, aside from being indefinable it's also intangible. "Chemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino from 'The Devil's Advocate', if we're to take love in the most literal sense. If there's a universal constant for Love then it would lend more credence to this whole notion that "God is Love". We don't even fully understand the nature of consciousness though and whether or not that plays a part in what we observe in the visible universe.

 

[Deidre32]

The concept of "love" is also very subjective. There's no universal standard for what love should be either.

I'm not opposed to the idea of higher realities, a multiverse, many worlds, or even the simulation argument. We could be actually living in The Matrix. Physicist James Gates even accidentally discovered internet browser codes embedded in the formulas for string theory. It's definitely possible, and according to some arguments it's highly probable. Way more probable than a deity that creates all humans from 2 people magically molded out of dust through generations of incest and codemns them to Sin for disobeying the deity's order not to seek knowledge via a magic apple and talking snake. Then to redeem his own creation, the deity must impregnate a virgin to become his own father so he can kill himself.

God loves his own creation so much that he had to drown most of them in the Flood. Not exactly the kind of "love" I'm looking for. Love is also just an idea, aside from being indefinable it's also intangible. "Chemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino from 'The Devil's Advocate', if we're to take love in the most literal sense. If there's a universal constant for Love then it would lend more credence to this whole notion that "God is Love". We don't even fully understand the nature of consciousness though and whether or not that plays a part in what we observe in the visible universe.

Great post.

Goes back to what has been said in so many words...

Man invents a god who conditionally loves his/its creation, because that's how man loves. Man can't imagine anything other than his own reference point, and thus god is an invention that mirrors himself. Not the other way around.

 

[Aldebaran]

Great post.

Goes back to what has been said in so many words...

Man invents a god who conditionally loves his/its creation, because that's how man loves. Man can't imagine anything other than his own reference point, and thus god is an invention that mirrors himself. Not the other way around.

That's not too surprising if we are created in God's image. Now, if we start to believe that God is a creation of man and that we create Him in our image, then we have a confusion of who created whom.

 

[Deidre32]

That's not too surprising if we are created in God's image. Now, if we start to believe that God is a creation of man and that we create Him in our image, then we have a confusion of who created whom.

i don't think i'm confused anymore on that point. lol

in all seriousness, i think it ironic and interesting that mankind loves conditionally and so has the various gods it's created over the years, especially the abrahamic ''versions.'' You may say that ''God'' doesn't love conditionally, but going with the versions that are presently out there and mainstream currently, it would seem that he does.

 

[Aldebaran]

i don't think i'm confused anymore on that point. lol

in all seriousness, i think it ironic and interesting that mankind loves conditionally and so has the various gods it's created over the years, especially the abrahamic ''versions.'' You may say that ''God'' doesn't love conditionally, but going with the versions that are presently out there and mainstream currently, it would seem that he does.

Actually, God does love unconditionally. God Himself IS love. But before you ask about hell, we also have to remember that He is also just. If you had a father who loved you, and he happened to be the judge where you lived, and you committed a major crime, what do you expect he'll do when you are brought to court? If the judge, even though he's your father, weighs the evidence fairly and finds you guilty, he would still have to be just and sentence you like he would anyone else. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you anymore. He had to be just.

 

[Deidre32]

Actually, God does love unconditionally. God Himself IS love. But before you ask about hell, we also have to remember that He is also just. If you had a father who loved you, and he happened to be the judge where you lived, and you committed a major crime, what do you expect he'll do when you are brought to court? If the judge, even though he's your father, weighs the evidence fairly and finds you guilty, he would still have to be just and sentence you like he would anyone else. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you anymore. He had to be just.

I've used that analogy myself when I was a Christian, but I don't imagine a truly loving parent condemning his/her child to a perpetual life of torment, simply because the child refuses to comply. That said, it can be construed that the child will reap what he/she has sown, and thus if he/she chooses a life of destruction, then he/she will get what he/she deserves. But, just because someone choose a life without believing in Christianity for example, doesn't mean his/her life will be immoral or destructive. That is the problem with the analogy. I live a life not unlike the life I lived as a Christian, to be honest. I'm still the same person who wishes to make life better for others where I can, I just don't worship a deity, anymore.

 

[UnReAL13]

That's not too surprising if we are created in God's image. Now, if we start to believe that God is a creation of man and that we create Him in our image, then we have a confusion of who created whom.

"Is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders?" - Nietzsche

 

[Aldebaran]

"Is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders?" - Nietzsche

.....assuming either one to be a blunder.

 

[Aldebaran]

I've used that analogy myself when I was a Christian, but I don't imagine a truly loving parent condemning his/her child to a perpetual life of torment, simply because the child refuses to comply. That said, it can be construed that the child will reap what he/she has sown, and thus if he/she chooses a life of destruction, then he/she will get what he/she deserves. But, just because someone choose a life without believing in Christianity for example, doesn't mean his/her life will be immoral or destructive. That is the problem with the analogy. I live a life not unlike the life I lived as a Christian, to be honest. I'm still the same person who wishes to make life better for others where I can, I just don't worship a deity, anymore.

I think the main thing to focus on is that it's not really about believing in Christianity (some say a religion, a set of rules to follow), but rather in Christ Himself as our redeemer. It's a personal relationship with Him. What God did for us through Jesus was personal, and it was more than we can imagine. I wouldn't want to face God after rejecting that gift.

 

[UnReAL13]

.....assuming either one to be a blunder.

The notion that an infallible deity exists is a very large assumption to begin with, let alone that humans are somehow "infallible." In other words, did god use fallacious reasoning to create man, or did man use fallacious reasoning to create god?