Why should one care if ''God'' exists?

[Deidre32]

Seriously?

What do you mean by "seriously?"

 

[Aldebaran]

What do you mean by "seriously?"

I didn't think I had said anything that was by any means profound, so I didn't know if you were being serious or not.

 

[Deidre32]

I didn't think I had said anything that was by any means profound, so I didn't know if you were being serious or not.

Lol oh. I wouldn't have posted it if i wasn't serious. Sometimes the most profound things are said with less words.

 

[Aldebaran]

Lol oh. I wouldn't have posted it if i wasn't serious. Sometimes the most profound things are said with less words.

Yeah, I'm trying to learn the art of shorter, more compact responses. Going into long details hasn't really netted me any more results. Short and sweet seems to be the better way.

 

[UnReAL13]

This is interesting! I almost didn't take you seriously at first and then...I noticed your sig. Lol

I'm not sure about #3. If a god exists, it/he could love his creation, we just don't know.

It's as serious as a claim about "god" lol. I sort of blended a few forms of non-theism into my own unique viewpoint.

I myself don't think anyone can be 100% certain of any knowledge, but a god that allows billions of innocent people to suffer needlessly with slow and painful deaths doesn't exactly strike me as the "loving" type.

Your view would be valid as long as someone subscribed to points 1,2 and 3.

You don't necessarily need to subscribe to each one of those philosphies. Ignosticism alone is enough to hold over any discussion indefinitely. I just followed the line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, in regards to whether or not we should actually "care" about the existence of god and why. You can certainly just believe in god but not care about that god, hence Apatheism.

 

[Aldebaran]

You don't necessarily need to subscribe to each one of those philosphies. Ignosticism alone is enough to hold over any discussion indefinitely. I just followed the line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, in regards to whether or not we should actually "care" about the existence of god and why. You can certainly just believe in god but not care about that god, hence Apatheism.

The Christian's belief "in" God is better worded as believing 'on" God. It's pretty much a reliance on, or dependence on God. It's not just about believing that He exists, although one needs to do that first. Just as Jesus pointed out that even the demons believe in God, and shudder at the fact, yet they have still decided to go their own way in opposition to Him.

 

[Deidre32]

It's as serious as a claim about "god" lol. I sort of blended a few forms of non-theism into my own unique viewpoint.

I myself don't think anyone can be 100% certain of any knowledge, but a god that allows billions of innocent people to suffer needlessly with slow and painful deaths doesn't exactly strike me as the "loving" type.



You don't necessarily need to subscribe to each one of those philosphies. Ignosticism alone is enough to hold over any discussion indefinitely. I just followed the line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, in regards to whether or not we should actually "care" about the existence of god and why. You can certainly just believe in god but not care about that god, hence Apatheism.

This is precisely where I was hoping the discussion would lead but couldn't articulate it quite like this. I think that's it exactly. Even if there were objective evidence to support a god's existence, why should it be assumed that he/it expects us to care?

I think that goes to man's desire to be worshipped if he reaches elite statuses in life. Man assumes a god will require/expect the same. The Abrahamic faiths all depict god in this light.

 

[UnReAL13]

The Christian's belief "in" God is better worded as believing 'on" God. It's pretty much a reliance on, or dependence on God. It's not just about believing that He exists, although one needs to do that first. Just as Jesus pointed out that even the demons believe in God, and shudder at the fact, yet they have still decided to go their own way in opposition to Him.

I'm just not sure what makes the Christian God "the correct god" as opposed to the thousands of other gods that people have believed in throughout history, let alone how to even distinguish it or "him" from the rest. There's definitely a large number of attributes that Christianity shares with all the other mythologies.

Also, what exactly is the difference between believing "on god" and "in god"? How is the Christian reliance on their god truly distinct from relying on the gods of any other religion?

 

[Deidre32]

The Christian's belief "in" God is better worded as believing 'on" God. It's pretty much a reliance on, or dependence on God. It's not just about believing that He exists, although one needs to do that first. Just as Jesus pointed out that even the demons believe in God, and shudder at the fact, yet they have still decided to go their own way in opposition to Him.

So in other words, you *want* to believe that "God" exists. (?)

 

[Deidre32]

I'm just not sure what makes the Christian God "the correct god" as opposed to the thousands of other gods that people have believed in throughout history, let alone how to even distinguish it or "him" from the rest. There's definitely a large number of attributes that Christianity shares with all the other mythologies.

Also, what exactly is the difference between believing "on god" and "in god"? How is the Christian reliance on their god truly distinct from relying on the gods of any other religion?

I think believing "on" god means you feel that man is in need of something outside of himself to be his best self. Even if there is no proof, man should (want to) rely on something other than himself. I'm guessing but that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Noxot]

I said nothing about you as a person. I don't know you. I commented on the tone of your post and that what you are "saying" is an opinion. Unless you have proof of all you say, it is an opinion. Your opinion.

And atheism isn't synonymous with materialism. I'm not sure why that notion has taken such shape in Christian circles.

yes we all have opinions. some think their opinions are more solid because they believe they understand the structure of reality according to their philosophical views. they have some things that they can measure that would seem to be able to help them understand all of reality.

proofs are very subjective. I know it is hard for those who require many proofs and who mostly base their belief systems on proofs, but the truth is that just because you have proof of a tiny bit of information does not mean that you have all the rest of the information and so that spec of information could end up looking completely different when you see the totality of all information.

in my eyes materialism and atheism seem to go hand in hand because they base their foundation of truth on the things that are right before their eyes. obviously that would seem sane at first glance.

 

[UnReAL13]

This is precisely where I was hoping the discussion would lead but couldn't articulate it quite like this. I think that's it exactly. Even if there were objective evidence to support a god's existence, why should it be assumed that he/it expects us to care?

I think that goes to man's desire to be worshipped if he reaches elite statuses in life. Man assumes a god will require/expect the same. The Abrahamic faiths all depict god in this light.

There's definitely no conclusive evidence for any viewpoint on god, and who knows if there ever will be. I do think that every religion, dating back to Egyptian and Sumerian, has been designed around the culture of that time period. People have always strived to deify themselves. It's the ultimate ego-trip. Which is why most of the gods people worshipped strongly resemble the society of the age when it was worshipped.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think believing "on" god means you feel that man is in need of something outside of himself to be his best self. Even if there is no proof, man should (want to) rely on something other than himself. I'm guessing but that's how I interpreted it.

My interpretation is that believing on Him is like the way you depend on an airplane to keep you aloft--as long as you're in it. You can't stay aloft yourself. You are dependent on the airplane. Maybe that's not the best analogy....

It might be better to say that when you're in court, you depend on your lawyer to get you through the process because you don't know the process as well as he does. Another example is how a child is dependent on his/her parents for his/her provisions.

 

[UnReAL13]

I think believing "on" god means you feel that man is in need of something outside of himself to be his best self. Even if there is no proof, man should (want to) rely on something other than himself. I'm guessing but that's how I interpreted it.

I kind of get it, saying that you aren't "complete" without that god, lol I think? I just don't see how it varies from other religions. I'll see what they have to say about it.

 

[UnReAL13]

My interpretation is that believing on Him is like the way you depend on an airplane to keep you aloft--as long as you're in it. You can't stay aloft yourself. You are dependent on the airplane. Maybe that's not the best analogy....

It might be better to say that when you're in court, you depend on your lawyer to get you through the process because you don't know the process as well as he does. Another example is how a child is dependent on his/her parents for his/her provisions.

I still don't see how relying on God is any different from relying on Yahweh, Allah, Buddha, Odin, Zeus, Mithra or Osiris. Not to mention hundreds of other "master gods".

 

[Deidre32]

I kind of get it, saying that you aren't "complete" without that god, lol I think? I just don't see how it varies from other religions. I'll see what they have to say about it.

I'm a former Christian, and the desire to want to believe was very great. But when I reconciled my beliefs against what was actually true, I couldn't pretend like I believed for the sake of it. Fear kept me believing too for a while.

To your point above about other gods/religions, yes that's true. I've often thought it ironic that "God" tended to mirror what mankind likes and dislikes. Mankind always just "knows" exactly what god detests.

Hmmm...

 

[Deidre32]

My interpretation is that believing on Him is like the way you depend on an airplane to keep you aloft--as long as you're in it. You can't stay aloft yourself. You are dependent on the airplane. Maybe that's not the best analogy....

It might be better to say that when you're in court, you depend on your lawyer to get you through the process because you don't know the process as well as he does. Another example is how a child is dependent on his/her parents for his/her provisions.

I understand, but relying on the ancient stories of who/what god is/should be is a leap. But perhaps that's why it's called a leap of faith.

I think for me, I no longer could keep living my life on faith.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm a former Christian, and the desire to want to believe was very great. But when I reconciled my beliefs against what was actually true, I couldn't pretend like I believed for the sake of it. Fear kept me believing too for a while.

To your point above about other gods/religions, yes that's true. I've often thought it ironic that "God" tended to mirror what mankind likes and dislikes. Mankind always just "knows" exactly what god detests.

Hmmm...

Oh, I don't know about that. Before I became a Christian, I had started to believe in spiritual things and thought that the dreams we have at night were a glimpse into the existence we go into when we die. I had some lucid dreams that seemed very real and then I started looking deeper into that idea. I really liked the idea more than the idea that someone higher than me was in charge and that I don't create my own spiritual world as I had hoped and believed. So Christianity wasn't what I wanted it to be, but from what I've seen, it seems to be what is reality.

 

[Noxot]

Higher up realities? Huh?

Your point is completely obscure to me.

I have absolutely no clue what you are saying here. It just seems to be praise for blindness and ignorance.


eudaimonia,

Mark

well there are many things about my belief structures that are different than yours. there is also a difference in between how you and I try to explain and know things. we speak two different languages though I can relate to you on some things. I don't think like an atheist thinks. blindness and ignorance are blessings in that they serve their proper function. most of us are more blind and ignorant than we are "in the know". knowledge leads to more darkness.

everyone believes truth to be what they believe it is.

 

[UnReAL13]

I'm a former Christian, and the desire to want to believe was very great. But when I reconciled my beliefs against what was actually true, I couldn't pretend like I believed for the sake of it. Fear kept me believing too for a while.

To your point above about other gods/religions, yes that's true. I've often thought it ironic that "God" tended to mirror what mankind likes and dislikes. Mankind always just "knows" exactly what god detests.

Hmmm...

YES exactly. So-called "divine morality" always reflects what's culturally acceptable as the belief system is adopted. There are so many parts of the Bible that now get immediately disregarded for the sheer barbarism of such notions. Societal standards evolve along with people.

I'm also an Ex-Christian Apostate, breaking away from an entire childhood and adolescence of indoctrination. Hilariously enough, I know more about the Bible now than I ever did as a believer.