• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
So wisdom will eventually destroy all dukkha including death?
Wisdom teaches me how to eliminate dukkha, in various ways.

A mundane example: By touching a hot stove for the first time, I gained knowledge and wisdom which dispel my prior illusions about stoves, thus eliminating a source of future dukkha (I will not touch hot stoves ever again).

... destroy all dukkha including death?
Death itself is simply an natural, neutral event, and a law of reality/nature. It is not dukkha in and of itself. Aversions, attachments, or ignorance regarding death can be sources of dukkha, however.

Christianity teaches that God's wisdom will do the same and that He works through us.
I have no personal knowledge of this. I know that gaining my own knowledge and wisdom is effective, however.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
I'm looking for deeper information, please Mostly what you gave are concepts.
What are those laws of Nature that are seen? And, as seen, what are the Laws governing the various planes of reality?
Mainly, insight into the three characteristics of existence, on every plane: 1. anicca (inconstancy & thus, cause and effect), 2. dukkha, and 3. anatta (not-self).

"When you see with discernment, 'All fabrications are [anicca]' — you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity. When you see with discernment, 'All fabrications are [dukkha]' — you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity. When you see with discernment, 'All phenomena are [anatta]' — you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity." - Dhp 277-279 cf AN 3.134

Because of ignorance/illusions regarding these three characteristics, we generate attachments and aversions, and dukkha results.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Quoting words from a book is irrelevant, if I question the book itself. If anything, your arguments are strawmen in context of my OP.

unfortunately, buddha was a child of the "night", as your forum avatar depicts it, namely, (buddha) sitting/meditating under the "fig tree" (i.e. under the so-called "tree of the knowledge of good and evil") by night - it was a tradition in ancient india, and it is unfortunately still a tradition there, as krishna testifies to himself in the 15th chapter of bhagavad gita (purusottama yoga) that yoga is a discipline of (kind of) "eating" of the ancient "fig tree", whose "leaves" (as he says) are the vedic scriptures (i.e. the "leaves" of which adam and eve made themselves "aprons" after they began to "eat" of it)

bhagavad gita 15:1 "krishna said: metaphorically it is stated, the banyan tree roots above and branches below is imperishable; the vedic scriptures are the leaves of that tree, one who understands this is knowledgeable of the vedic scriptures",

the same chapter and verse (another version) "Krishna. Men call the Aswattha,- the Banyan-tree,- Which hath its boughs beneath, its roots above,- The ever-holy tree. Yea! for its leaves Are green and waving hymns which whisper Truth! Who knows the Aswattha, knows Veds, and all."

aren't such persons as krishna angels of satan, especially if they present/profess/prophesy/preach "eating" of the "tree of the knowledge of good an evil" as something (ostensibly) holy?!, buddha was also one of them, though he was (seemingly) the best of their prophets - remember that he was a student of two yogic gurus(arada kalama and udraka ramaputra) before he obtained his (so-called) enlightenment - why have they preferred reigning in the world to seeking perfect salvation for humankind?!, because the truly serious worshiper would prefer seeking as perfect all-embracing salvation as possible to wasting their time with meditation the result of which is nothing but becoming/being (more) proud of one's participation in the affairs of inefficiency...

Save people from what?

you know from what, from evil as a whole, what else?!

Blessings
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
unfortunately, buddha was a child of the "night",
Why is the evening-time "unfortunate"?

I have no personal knowledge of any of this dogma. Why are you mixing Buddhism with Hinduism?

the truly serious worshiper would prefer seeking as perfect all-embracing salvation as possible to wasting their time with meditation
I have no personal knowledge of the efficacy of deity worship to obtain alleged offers of salvation by said deity. On the other hand, I do have personal knowledge of the release offered through meditation.

you know from what, from evil as a whole, what else?!

Blessings
The fact as I see it is this: some people choose to do good, others choose to commit evils, in order to escape their dukkha and to acquire sukkha.

Buddhism taught me the Way to release from dukkha, and that is the greatest (supermundane) good. Through my personal example, I show others that there is a Way they can travel themselves to achieve the same release. In such a way, Buddhism "saves" others.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Eyes wide Open

Love and peace is the ONLY foundation-to build....
Dec 13, 2011
977
136
Australia
✟42,410.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Reactions: dlamberth
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private

you seem like a typical example of how millions of religious worshipers have missed repenting of their unrighteousness/deficiencies/shortcomings, and i am not a person that will go to force any of them to follow anything, whether or not they will repent depends on them - after all, no person of the Kingdom of the true One is an oppressor/mauler

what kind of example will we set for others and will they follow of us if we don't seek the perfection leading to true overall salvation?!, if one religion has not shown such a perfection for decades or even more for centuries, then it is certain that religion doesn't and can't lead people to the true One, because in that religion there is not an unfeigned responsibility as well as promise of true overall salvation

there is a whole teaching, from the origin of things to the big end which is never (the) last, and here come questions such as: if so many souls have been born and lived under sin/death in this world, then is it possible that there be indefinitely lasting life in heavenly paradise?!, and if there was such a life, then why have so many souls turned out to be under sin/death out of that paradise given that an entire time's infinity has already elapsed up to the present - or how is it possible that they not be in that paradise now after all that past time's infinity (if their lives in that paradise can never end)?! - after all, time's infinity means time without beginning and end, and if there was an end of eternal life, then could God afford not to allow there to be eternal judgment(circle of existence, events and positions of the souls) (because many could say they have suffered more than others or that they have never had the riches that others had)?!, and if so, then does/will any kind/sort/type of non-salvation/destruction benefit us in the long run/term (of eternity)?!...

Blessings
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
you seem like a typical example of how millions of religious worshipers have missed repenting of their unrighteousness/deficiencies/shortcomings
Certainly not ... I repent of my personal deficiencies by working hard to overcome them.

I have no personal knowledge of your dogmas regarding salvation, "the true One", (eternal) "souls", "indefinitely lasting life in heavenly paradise", being "turned out" of this alleged "paradise", "eternal life", "God", "eternal judgment", etc.
 
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private

i don't think that God is pleased if there is not full salvation for everyone - do you think that an owner/chief of a clinic will be pleased if patients/clients of his clinic are not treated well enough there?!, so is God when it comes to souls and their salvation, maybe you don't love all children of the world as yours, but God considers all human and other (be)souled beings of the universe His children and all souls His seed, and wants to provide all of them with abundant and eternal life, i think it is irresponsible on our part if we don't conform to this fact/truth...

and don't tell me that you have no knowledge of this...

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,181
3,188
Oregon
✟951,168.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
I have the hardest time listening to any argument that describes God in terms that are presented as human based images. It just doesn't work for me. As such I'm just unable to accept any such arguments as fact/truth.
 
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
i don't think that God
I have no personal knowledge of "God", unfortunately.

is pleased if there is not full salvation for everyone
I have no personal knowledge of "salvation", unfortunately.

- do you think that an owner/chief of a clinic will be pleased if patients/clients of his clinic are not treated well enough there?!, so is God when it comes to souls and their salvation,
I can meet the owner/chief of a clinic. I have not met "God".

maybe you don't love all children of the world as yours, but God considers all human and other (be)souled beings of the universe His children and all souls His seed, and wants to provide all of them with abundant and eternal life,
I have no personal knowledge of "eternal life", unfortunately.

i think it is irresponsible on our part if we don't conform to this fact/truth...

and don't tell me that you have no knowledge of this...

Blessings
Why not? I don't I have personal knowledge of your claimed facts/truth, unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I have the hardest time listening to any argument that describes God in terms that are presented as human based images. It just doesn't work for me. As such I'm just unable to accept any such arguments as fact/truth.

where in the Bible can/do you find anything about believing not in God?!, even the Lord Himself, Jesus Christ, talks about believing in God the Father (as in Mark 11:22), the world of human(666) spirituality/religiosity is the one that has taught humans to believe not in the true God, and of course this doesn't mean that there have never been true Prophets of God that speak His truth; you have mind, why must you only rely/depend on others to tell you the truth?!, however, we must be careful not to deceive ourselves...

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private

this doesn't prove that there is no God(system Administrator/Provider of life), and if it comes into question, no one ever saw God, including His only begotten firstborn Son, but this doesn't mean there has been no one to believe in Him (John 1:18)

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
I agree: absence of proof does not prove that something does not exist.

Therefore, why not believe in Zeus, Apollo, Ahura-Mazda, Aten, Allah, Krishna, Brahma, etc.?

I'd rather be agnostic to it all.
 
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I agree: absence of proof does not prove that something does not exist.

Therefore, why not believe in Zeus, Apollo, Ahura-Mazda, Aten, Allah, Krishna, Brahma, etc.?

I'd rather be agnostic to it all.

why must we believe in such gods as krishna, brahma, vishnu, shiva, etc.?! - why must there necessarily be such a literal name?!, why not just in 'the One Who is really the true God'?! - this is the way universal in all languages, such phrases/expressions as this are universal and plain in all languages, and we who are now living physically in this world are the ones that can develop the faith by simplifying things for all people through explaining the truth of the true One and interpreting His Scripture - this is the way the true One pointed up...

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

ananda

Early Buddhist
May 6, 2011
14,757
2,123
Soujourner on Earth
✟193,871.00
Marital Status
Private
How is it universal and plain? It it not universal or plain, "God" is a word with specific meanings associated with it (could be different for different people, but still there are specific meanings), just like "Krishna" or "Zeus".

How have the Scriptures, the Tipitaka, enlightened you to the truth?
 
Upvote 0

toLiJC

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2012
3,041
227
✟35,877.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private

i talked about starting from the beginning rather than entering through the wide gate/going the broad way

Blessings
 
Upvote 0