Why seek "God"?

ananda said:

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

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I'm very much still seeking, but I did initially view Christianity and Buddhism as the best two options. My vision of Christianity is very informed by Christian mysticism, though, so I see it as a path of transformation too--very much like Buddhism, in fact, since the teachings are quite close. And yet their ultimate solutions seem diametrically opposed--reconciliation vs. detachment, and I find the former approach more compelling.

Christianity is terrifying, though, specifically because of that other level to it. Everything Anastasia said resonates with me (it usually does--I really love Eastern Orthodoxy), so I do worry if the whole thing is too good to be true and I'm never really going to get anywhere. And I'm not sure if I can get anywhere while worrying about that, so the whole thing may just be one cosmic catch 22.

Silmarien said:

I'm very much still seeking, but I did initially view Christianity and Buddhism as the best two options. My vision of Christianity is very informed by Christian mysticism, though, so I see it as a path of transformation too--very much like Buddhism, in fact, since the teachings are quite close. And yet their ultimate solutions seem diametrically opposed--reconciliation vs. detachment, and I find the former approach more compelling.

Christianity is terrifying, though, specifically because of that other level to it. Everything Anastasia said resonates with me (it usually does--I really love Eastern Orthodoxy), so I do worry if the whole thing is too good to be true and I'm never really going to get anywhere. And I'm not sure if I can get anywhere while worrying about that, so the whole thing may just be one cosmic catch 22.

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Hello, Silmarien, and welcome to CF.

I noticed your comments, and I just wanted to say that if you'd like to drop by TAW (The Ancient Way) which is the Eastern Orthodox forum, you'd be welcome to post in fellowship. Not trying to proselytize - we don't try to drag people in but we want them to have eyes fully open and decide on their own. But I just wanted to say that even though we are a congregational forum, we are generally pretty welcoming. Though with it being Great Lent, we might not be at our best. The fast always often tends to be a spiritually intense time.

Believe it or not, I understand that fear, I think. I was discussing such things with my priest a few days ago. Our motives can be important, but the good (or maybe bad, depending on your perspective?) thing is that it's not so much like a switch that goes on and off, but more like layers and depths. And God grants intimacy at times, then pulls back during our process of growth.

Christian mysticism is wonderful and inspiring. But it has its risks too. Do you like reading the Desert Fathers, or some of the more recent Saints on that? The only thing is, we practice this under spiritual guidance. It can lead to very serious spiritual problems to attempt them on our own.

But again, welcome to CF. I pray you are blessed by being here.

ananda said:

Why do people seek "God"?
Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.
Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

Click to expand...

As I see it we can only know God through His Messengers and Prophets... It's in the "Message" that we receive that which can reduce our suffering. Each of the Messengers as I see Them brought teachings and prescribed ways we could reduce suffering for ourselves and our fellows...

It is also the context in which these teachings are revealed that we can better understand them and see how they are implemented.

The Buddha opposed the caste system... opposed sacrificing animals. When Asoka became emperor he implemented many Buddhist principles that benefited human society and reduced suffering.

Jesus also drove out the money changers and released the animals that were being sold for sacrifices in the Temple precincts. He opposed the nit picking of the Pharisees and consorted with banned members of society.. Uplifted poor people and suggested that even a "Good" Samaritan could help.

Muhammad lived in a society that would set unwanted female babies out in the desert to die! Slaves were exploited and misused.. Men were discarding their pregnant wives without any care or assistance. He prescribed an end to such practises to reduce suffering.

Baha'u'llah addressed the kings and rulers of His time to reduce their armaments, establish a representative world parliament to reduce wars and build an international court of arbitration to settle disputes. He also was for reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty and recognizing the equality of men and women... Why? to reduce the suffering.

~Anastasia~ said:

Hello, Silmarien, and welcome to CF.

I noticed your comments, and I just wanted to say that if you'd like to drop by TAW (The Ancient Way) which is the Eastern Orthodox forum, you'd be welcome to post in fellowship. Not trying to proselytize - we don't try to drag people in but we want them to have eyes fully open and decide on their own. But I just wanted to say that even though we are a congregational forum, we are generally pretty welcoming. Though with it being Great Lent, we might not be at our best. The fast always often tends to be a spiritually intense time.

Believe it or not, I understand that fear, I think. I was discussing such things with my priest a few days ago. Our motives can be important, but the good (or maybe bad, depending on your perspective?) thing is that it's not so much like a switch that goes on and off, but more like layers and depths. And God grants intimacy at times, then pulls back during our process of growth.

Christian mysticism is wonderful and inspiring. But it has its risks too. Do you like reading the Desert Fathers, or some of the more recent Saints on that? The only thing is, we practice this under spiritual guidance. It can lead to very serious spiritual problems to attempt them on our own.

But again, welcome to CF. I pray you are blessed by being here.

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Thank you! No worries about proselytizing--I appreciate the welcome. My first positive encounter with Christianity was Christian existentialism, which in some ways seems thematically closer to the Eastern than Western tradition, so there are tons of places where the Orthodox approach to theology makes a lot more sense to me than the alternatives. I'm probably going to stick it out with the Episcopalians, at least for the immediate future, but I'll drop by the forum at some point.

I haven't been practicing mysticism, except perhaps occasionally by accident. I don't feel like I believe anything strongly enough to get involved in that for real. I'm only familiar with Spanish mysticism so far, and not as much as I'd like--I've only been poking my nose into Christianity seriously for about three months now, so I've got a lot of catching up to do. And probably a ton of things to resolve.

Good luck with the fasting!

ananda said:

The further I walk along the Buddha's Path, the more I resolve my own sufferings, discontentments, and displeasures.

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Well put.

Silmarien said:

Thank you! No worries about proselytizing--I appreciate the welcome. My first positive encounter with Christianity was Christian existentialism, which in some ways seems thematically closer to the Eastern than Western tradition, so there are tons of places where the Orthodox approach to theology makes a lot more sense to me than the alternatives. I'm probably going to stick it out with the Episcopalians, at least for the immediate future, but I'll drop by the forum at some point.

I haven't been practicing mysticism, except perhaps occasionally by accident. I don't feel like I believe anything strongly enough to get involved in that for real. I'm only familiar with Spanish mysticism so far, and not as much as I'd like--I've only been poking my nose into Christianity seriously for about three months now, so I've got a lot of catching up to do. And probably a ton of things to resolve.

Good luck with the fasting!

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Thank you!

Will look forward to greeting you and chatting if you stop by!

ananda said:

I was Christian for 30+ years, before converting to Buddhism. I found their teachings to be diametrically opposite.

Christianity, in general, seems to answer the question of suffering by attributing it to sin and the judgment of God. Blind faith in the scriptures, and in the alleged Person(s) who originated those scriptures, are required to achieve the promise of resolving that suffering - to be gained in a future life. I suppose this can also apply to other faith-based religions too. How should one choose among such uncertainty?

Instead of speculating, Early Buddhism deals with suffering directly, without asking unanswerable questions regarding that suffering (e.g. who created that suffering? why? etc.) It simply acknowledges that there is suffering, and the practices we must do to achieve the resolution of that suffering - to be known in our current life (no faith involved).

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When I say they're similar, I mean that the teachings of Christ and the Buddha are very, very close. One is in a Jewish context and the other a Hindu one, but there's a lot that transcends that: Buddhism vs Christianity similarities differences

Which is very interesting.

I walked away from Christianity entirely for a decade and only came back because I realized that it was much, much deeper than the modern interpretation--I think that time away helped me view it very differently. The early church was referred to as "The Way," after all--way more going on there than a set of beliefs. So I think the focus on salvation as only being a matter of getting into heaven is a mistake, and not particularly biblical. The only thing the New Testament does is affirm that there is an afterlife--the whole point of the Gospel is bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to Earth. It is about living the present life better, and I think that traditions that understand salvation as a matter of becoming more like God really reflect that.

As for sin, Buddhism and Christianity generally condemn the exact same behavior as problematic, so it's hard to say that one is right about it and the other one is wrong. I'm allergic to literalism and prefer the approach that sin is really a matter of alienation and dehumanization, and that judgment is a matter of whether the individual is properly open to God, rather than an Osiris judging the dead scenario. (This is why I like Eastern Orthodoxy so much--it reassures me that I'm not completely out in left field with my interpretations of everything, haha.)

As far as how to choose... personally, I feel like Christianity is the only one where it really matters if it's true or not. Even if the wilder claims are not, you've still got a Jewish mystic who shook up Judaism in the same way the Buddha did Hinduism. If one is worth following, so is the other. At the very least, they're just different ways of conceptualizing the same thing and if done properly, should lead to the same results. Of course, if Christianity's wilder claims are true, then everything changes. (And not because I care about the threat of eternal damnation.)

I get why someone would want to step away from the religion, though. I think it's profoundly beautiful, but people do have a really uncanny way of turning what should be good news into the worst news imaginable. I'm hoping I don't get chased away to Buddhism too one day, haha.

Silmarien said:

When I say they're similar, I mean that the teachings of Christ and the Buddha are very, very close.

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I see it with the biblical teaching of "taking every thought captive". A big element of Buddhism (at least I'm pretty sure that's what the following is akin to) that I've come into contact with through more modern sources like Ekhart Tolle and Byron Katie is the knack of not believing every thought that floats through your mind. Byron Katie actually has something called "The Work" which helps you break down suppositions and beliefs through four questions rather than blindly accepting all one's thoughts as reality.

In fact, I think the biblical teaching of "doing all things for the glory of God" is what "practicing God's presence" is about, and this is another way of bringing oneself into the present moment, the Now, something taught in Eastern religions.

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ananda said:

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

Click to expand...

Some take it too literally and go off on trips, cross oceans even climb mountains,

some end up in old temple chanting and staring out into thin air.

There was someone like this who came to a town and asked a resident if he could
tell him where he could find God.
He told him,
"I will give you a gold coin if you can tell me where God is."
The resident replied,
"I will give you two gold coins if you can tell me where He is not."


He is, wherever you let Him in.

ananda said:

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

Click to expand...

We are born with knowledge of our meeting with the Lord. In Islam it's referred to as the Fitra, the primordial inner longing to reconnect. We journey through life with this deep inner need to find truth, and for this reason some people go to great lengths to nourish their soul, bringing it the peace it craves.

Some people ignore it and satisfy themselves with the love of Money, Women and other Worldly pursuits.

chaela said:

I see it with the biblical teaching of "taking every thought captive". A big element of Buddhism (at least I'm pretty sure that's what the following is akin to) that I've come into contact with through more modern sources like Ekhart Tolle and Byron Katie is the knack of not believing every thought that floats through your mind. Byron Katie actually has something called "The Work" which helps you break down suppositions and beliefs through four questions rather than blindly accepting all one's thoughts as reality.

In fact, I think the biblical teaching of "doing all things for the glory of God" is what "practicing God's presence" is about, and this is another way of bringing oneself into the present moment, the Now, something taught in Eastern religions.

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Ooh, that's very interesting! I've also seen people argue the difference between eternal and everlasting and point out that eternity is more about living every moment fully in the present.

Comparative religion is fascinating in general. I don't know quite as much about Buddhism as I'd like--my first interest was Taoism and my second Sufi Islam, but familiarity with different approaches changes the way you think about all of them. Of course, it makes a hardline exclusivist approach difficult, but that's frankly more a perk than a drawback.

ananda said:

When did I write that I had no results?

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If you have a malignant tumor in your brain which hurts, you could solve the problem with aspirin.

However, is that the desired result?

Similarly, most people don't even know what the desired result to be reached is, because they don't know what problem is being faced.

In your view, what is the human predicament?

ananda said:

And for what reason(s) do you seek "Him"?

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As far as I know I never lost Him.