WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[LoveGodsWord]

There are passages that both sides can quote. That the NT does not settle the matter either way, STM to follow from that. One could argue that the NT is consistent but incoherent - but that would imply that the NT is meant as a systematic theology, which I think it is not meant to be.

I would rather believe that it records different human theologies of salvation, than believe that it is meant to be perfectly consistent, but gives “an uncertain sound” on this (or any other) issue. I see no difficulty in believing both this, and, that it is fully inspired.

Actually there is no scripture (which is the point of this OP) that says we can as believers choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive everlasting life. If you disagree then your welcome to show me a single scripture that says we can as believers choose to depart the faith and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin and still receive everlasting life? If you cannot then there is no such thing as once saved always saved (OSAS) because we are not always saved if we choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and unrepentant sin and if there was no possibility of this ever happening to believers we would not be warned in the scriptures against departing the faith and returning to unbelief and known unrepentant sin. If you can provide a single scripture that shows we can choose to depart the faith and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin I will believe you and you will be the first person ever that I know that has ever provided a scripture to answer this question. (see Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31).

Take Care

 

[jamiec]

Actually there is no scripture (which is the point of this OP) that says we can as believers choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive everlasting life. If you disagree then your welcome to show me a single scripture that says we can as believers choose to depart the faith and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin and still receive everlasting life? If you cannot then there is no such thing as once saved always saved (OSAS) because we are not always saved if we choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and unrepentant sin and if there was no possibility of this ever happening to believers we would not be warned in the scriptures against departing the faith and returning to unbelief and known unrepentant sin. If you can provide a single scripture that shows we can choose to depart the faith and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin I will believe you and you will be the first person ever that I know that has ever provided a scripture to answer this question. (see Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31).

Take Care

I have no idea what the answer to this issue is, or even whether there is one.

Take care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have no idea what the answer to this issue is, or even whether there is one.

Take care.

See Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31 with post # 2 linked and post # 3 linked. Then see what happens to all unbelievers and those who choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin in post # 5 linked. According to the Jesus only those "believing" receive eternal life and those who are "unbelieving" will not see life *John 3:36. There is no scripture that says that we can choose to return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life. Therefore there is no such thing as once saved always saved (OSAS) because if we choose to depart the faith we are no longer believers but have become "unbelievers" and unbelievers do not receive everlasting life. According to the scriptures. Take a look at the scriptures provided and the linked posts. There is no scripture that says we can choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life therefore there is no such thing as OSAS. If OSAS was true we would not be warned in the scriptures not to depart the faith. Do you understand what is being shared here?

 

[jamiec]

See Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31 with post # 2 linked and post # 3 linked. Then see what happens to all unbelievers and those who choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin in post # 5 linked. According to the Jesus only those "believing" receive eternal life and those who are "unbelieving" will not see life *John 3:36. There is no scripture that says that we can choose to return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life. Therefore there is no such thing as once saved always saved (OSAS) because if we choose to depart the faith we are no longer believers but have become "unbelievers" and unbelievers do not receive everlasting life. According to the scriptures. Take a look at the scriptures provided and the linked posts. There is no scripture that says we can choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life therefore there is no such thing as OSAS. If OSAS was true we would not be warned in the scriptures not to depart the faith. Do you understand what is being shared here?

You may be correct, in whole or in part. As is usually the case, there are passages to support more than one side of the argument.

I don’t think there is any use or purpose in discussing an issue which the Bible itself does not decide one way or another.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You may be correct, in whole or in part. As is usually the case, there are passages to support more than one side of the argument. I don’t think there is any use or purpose in discussing an issue which the Bible itself does not decide one way or another.

If that were true you would be able to show scriptures that teach someone who was a believer and chooses to depart the faith and returns to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin receives eternal life and you cannot as there is no scripture (see Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31 with post # 2 linked and post # 3 linked. Then see what happens to all unbelievers and those who choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin in post # 5 linked) As posted earlier, according to the Jesus only those "believing" receive eternal life and those who are "unbelieving" will not see life *John 3:36. There is no scripture that says that we can choose to return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life. Therefore there is no such thing as once saved always saved (OSAS) because if we choose to depart the faith we are no longer believers but have become "unbelievers" and unbelievers do not receive everlasting life. According to the scriptures. Take a look at the scriptures provided and the linked posts. There is no scripture that says we can choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still receive eternal life therefore there is no such thing as OSAS. If OSAS was true we would not be warned in the scriptures not to depart the faith. Let me ask you again do you understand what is being shared here?

Take Care

 

[Psalm 27]

Yes, I believe that salvation can be lost

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, I believe that salvation can be lost

Thanks for your thoughts Psalms 27. If salvation can be lost there is no such thing as OSAS because if we can be lost we are not once saved always saved and if we were always saved we would not be warned not to "depart the faith".

God bless.

 

[Faithful777]

Sin is what is not of faith, and it is what is not serving God in the Spirit of truth.

Jesus Christ is faith, and faithful, and the way to follow is not living a life for ourselves, to have total rejection from the people he came to help, but to know that is the wisdom of God, to do no harm, but to reveal that the heart of man is evil anyway.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sin is what is not of faith, and it is what is not serving God in the Spirit of truth. Jesus Christ is faith, and faithful, and the way to follow is not living a life for ourselves, to have total rejection from the people he came to help, but to know that is the wisdom of God, to do no harm, but to reveal that the heart of man is evil anyway.

Thanks for sharing. Do you have any comments on the OP?

 

[Trivalee]

WHY OUR SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Greetings with much love to all my fellow Christians in the Lord Jesus. I thought I would post this as I wanted to show the multitude of scripture that proves that our salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says and that our salvation can be lost if we choose to depart the faith (the truth of Word of God) and no longer believe and follow what Gods' Word says and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. I posted some of the scriptures in another thread but they are lost somewhere in that thread which is grown quite large now. So I am posting those scriptures and more not previously posted if anyone may want to see what the bible says about losing salvation.

QUESTIONS (answers need to be supported by scripture)

Q1. CAN WE LOSE SALVATION IF WE DEPART THE FAITH BY REJECTING GOD'S WORD AND RETURNING TO A LIFE OF KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

Q2. IS OUR SALVATION CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS?

Q3. CAN WE DEPART THE FAITH FROM BEING A BELIEVER TO BECOMING AN UNBELIEVER?

Q4. WHERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES THE TEACH IF WE CHOOSE REJECT GOD'S WORD WHEN HE GIVES US A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH AND TO DEPART THE FAITH AND RETURN TO A LIFE ON UNBELIEF AND SIN THAT SAY WE WILL STILL RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Q5. IS THE DOCTRINE OF ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED BIBLICAL?

I hope this can be a friendly discussion please based on the scriptures in regards to the questions posted above and I pray that the scriptures provided here might be helpful for our edification to anyone wanting to understand what the bible teaches in regards to the questions above in regards to our salvation.

May God bless us all as we seek Him through His Word.

I concur that salvation can be lost: 1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[Faithful777]

Thanks for sharing. Do you have any comments on the OP?

Faith is when you believe Jesus is risen from the dead, belief in righteousness ( no sin) and it is repentance from an evil mind of unbelief, ( mind of sin) and to then sin is to deny that Christ rose from the dead, and it is not something a person can go backwards and forwards in, believing and not be,living.

 

[Faithful777]

Salvation is faith, it is finding Christ, and knowing what the Apostles knew, that Jesus has the words of eternal life ( to believe) and there is nowhere else to go..


John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.



I understand the people who say saved, and that's that.

I also understand the people who say, do the commandments and live.


But who understands that faith, is when you find that pearl of great price,and the hidden treasure, and for joy thereof, you go and sell all you have and buy that field it is in ( heaven)


Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I concur that salvation can be lost: 1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Good scripture Trivalee, thanks for sharing your view.

God bless

 

[Faithful777]

Yes Apostle Paul kept under his body, to not be a hypocrite.


It is part of Holiness, but not to do with following all of the example.



That would be in suffering, loosing all things, and stop hearing men, and follow the whole example of Christ and the Holy Apostles of the Lord, all other people we do not know who they are, and they speak and do not then.




Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


1 Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes Apostle Paul kept under his body, to not be a hypocrite.


It is part of Holiness, but not to do with following all of the example.



That would be in suffering, loosing all things, and stop hearing men, and follow the whole example of Christ and the Holy Apostles of the Lord, all other people we do not know who they are, and they speak and do not then.




Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


1 Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Thanks for sharing some scriptures Faithful. How do you think they relate to the OP in your own words?

 

[Faithful777]

Thanks for sharing some scriptures Faithful. How do you think they relate to the OP in your own words?

Apostle Paul is following Christ, it is very simple, to be following Apostle Pauls example, is how you know how to follow Christ, other examples are how you know you are following men.


Following Christ ( as seen in Apostle Paul) is the way to eternal life..



Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Apostle Paul is following Christ, it is very simple, to be following Apostle Pauls example, is how you know how to follow Christ, other examples are how you know you are following men.


Following Christ ( as seen in Apostle Paul) is the way to eternal life..



Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

Ok thanks for this and what does this have to do with this OP? What point are you making?

 

[Faithful777]

Ok thanks for this and what does this have to do with this OP? What point are you making?

If you follow Christ, you did so by charity, calling on the Lord with a pure heart, your conscience sprinkled from an evil conscience, washed with pure water, with charity out of a pure heart, and if faith that is not fake, and you hold the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Regarding the OP, it means the OP does not speak about these things yet( because the answer of a good conscience believes Jesus rose from the dead and you cant undo that belief once it is held...




2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[Faithful777]

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[Faithful777]

Psalm 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.