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I Tried to open the door for that response in my title for those who do not view the Bible case as compelling as tradition
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I reject it because it is not a part of Historic Christianity
All affirm that we can loose our salvation.
I think most Baptists are osas, but perhaps not all.
If one continues living a sinful life without asking for forgiveness and repents (turns away from sin) they won't be saved ... the Lords word is clear on that.
We were created with free will and that fact never changes while we are alive on earth.
Free will - the ability to act at one's own discretion
Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
There is a group of Baptists - "Free Will Baptists" that affirm that the Bible does not support OSAS.
BobRyan said: ↑
There is a group of Baptists - "Free Will Baptists" that affirm that the Bible does not support OSAS.
But they're a small minority of Bapists. The Majority of the Protestants do believe that the Bible does in fact, support OSAS/Eternal Security.
If one continues living a sinful life without asking for forgiveness and repents (turns away from sin) they won't be saved ... the Lords word is clear on that.
We were created with free will and that fact never changes while we are alive on earth.
Free will - the ability to act at one's own discretion
Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
If you truly have God in you,
you will know OSAS is an evil doctrine.
Doesn't need intelligence or logic to confirm this.
It is the truth from God.
It never ceases to amaze me how the people who attack the OSAS doctrine the most are those who teach salvation by works and ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly disagree with OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me.
Certainly it is true that "Free Will Baptists" are a small segment of Baptists among the many different Baptist groups
It is also true that the SDA denomination is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world according to a "Christianity Today" article in Feb 2015 - and they also affirm the fact that OSAS is not supported in scripture.
It is also true that John Wesley and a great many Methodists after him are on record as knowing that the are aware that the Bible does not support OSAS.
So aside from Presbyterian and Baptists that are not Free Will Baptists, who are the other OSAS groups that you classify as Protestant??
Jude 24-25Most Christians who reject OSAS will say they reject it because the Bible does not support it.
So even though the Gospel is that of being "Saved by grace through faith" it is a gospel where the saints still have free will to choose. And while it is true that one is not lost each time they sin 1 John 2:1 yet the Bible texts about someone losing salvation are very clear.
IS that idea of the Bible not supporting OSAS something you also believe? Is that sufficient reason to reject OSAS?
Matthew 18 -- the chapter ends with "forgiveness revoked" teaching of Christ. Notice in that chapter "I forgave you ALL that debt" but then what happens? Notice how Christ "applies" the lesson "SO SHALL My Father do to each of you IF..."
Ezek 18 - Forgiveness revoked clearly taught in scripture.
Romans 11 - salvation revoked "you stand only by your faith .. you should FEAR for if God did not spare them he may not spare you either... to you God's goodness IF you continue.. otherwise you will be cut off"
1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" Indeed disqualified from it in that case
Matt 13 - seed on ground that "comes to LIFE" and springs up .. but then dies
John 15 "branches IN ME" that are "cut off" and tossed into the fire
Gal 5 "severed from Christ... fallen from grace".. you can't be severed from something you never were joined to.
(In my opinion OSAS is not at all reasonable unless one is first inclined to accept at least some key features of Calvinism. I don't understand how any non-Calvinist gets to the point of believing in OSAS, and since I too am not one who holds to 4 or 5 point Calvinism.. I don't have a basis for OSAS either)
I find that quite amusing due to the fact that you would use "Our Catholic friends" when your Seventh-day Adventist prophet, (Ellen White) has written so much regarding Catholics, none of it in friendly terms.Our Catholic friends sometimes get criticism that they do not follow "sola scriptura testing" but here is a case were a popular non-Catholic teaching does not appear to pass the "Sola Scriptura" test.
I find that interesting. How about you?
Most Christians who reject OSAS will say they reject it because the Bible does not support it.
So even though the Gospel is that of being "Saved by grace through faith" it is a gospel where the saints still have free will to choose. And while it is true that one is not lost each time they sin 1 John 2:1 yet the Bible texts about someone losing salvation are very clear.
IS that idea of the Bible not supporting OSAS something you also believe? Is that sufficient reason to reject OSAS?
Matthew 18 -- the chapter ends with "forgiveness revoked" teaching of Christ. Notice in that chapter "I forgave you ALL that debt" but then what happens? Notice how Christ "applies" the lesson "SO SHALL My Father do to each of you IF..."
Ezek 18 - Forgiveness revoked clearly taught in scripture.
Romans 11 - salvation revoked "you stand only by your faith .. you should FEAR for if God did not spare them he may not spare you either... to you God's goodness IF you continue.. otherwise you will be cut off"
1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" Indeed disqualified from it in that case
Matt 13 - seed on ground that "comes to LIFE" and springs up .. but then dies
John 15 "branches IN ME" that are "cut off" and tossed into the fire
Gal 5 "severed from Christ... fallen from grace".. you can't be severed from something you never were joined to.
(In my opinion OSAS is not at all reasonable unless one is first inclined to accept at least some key features of Calvinism. I don't understand how any non-Calvinist gets to the point of believing in OSAS, and since I too am not one who holds to 4 or 5 point Calvinism.. I don't have a basis for OSAS either)
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Our Catholic friends sometimes get criticism that they do not follow "sola scriptura testing" but here is a case were a popular non-Catholic teaching does not appear to pass the "Sola Scriptura" test.
I find that interesting. How about you?
Jude 24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
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I find that quite amusing due to the fact that you would use "Our Catholic friends"
Virtually every other Protestant group because the vast majority of Protestants agree with Luther's findings and theologies that he made in the 1,500's a.k.a sola scriptura, sola fide, and Eternal Security.
from; Out There: Eternal Security/Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS)
Like “Faith Alone”, “Eternal Security” made its first appearance at the Reformation, being introduced by leaders such as Bucer and Calvin. Interestingly though, it was never taught by Luther:
, your denomination IS large in number but some of what it teaches is just not in line with what the Bible, the Apostles, and Christ himself taught.
Your denomination claims that we have to keep the Sabbath
A majority of the Church didn't believe in, doesn't believe in OSAS but that doesn't mean that it isn't taught in scripture.
It's taught (OSAS is taught) throughout the Bible.
I've already given my points on OSAS in post #21.
Okay, so. I don't see how most if not all of the Protestant theology is not taught throughout the Bible.
I could name many examples but since this thread is about Eternal Security I'll post on that. If it were not true that our salvation were not eternally secure than why would Christ have said numerous times that it was? see (John 6:37-40, John 10:27-30, John 5:24, John 3:16, Revelation 3:5, Revelation 21:7)
Why would Paul say in Romans 10:13 that EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved? This fits in with Christs statement in John 6:37 that he will not cast out ONE person who comes to him for salvation with a genuinely repentant heart. Not to mention Paul's statement in 2 Corinthians 5:5? Or many of his other statements that said that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone? (Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:22, Romans 4:1-25, Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, Philippians 3:9, Acts 16:31, & more)
Why would even the apostle John say so in one of his letters? (1 John 5:10-13) and also in (John 1:12)
The apostle Peter? (1 Peter 1:4-5)
Why would the writer of Hebrews say in Hebrews 10:10-14 that those who have been born of God are perfected forever?
Why would both the Prophet Micah and Isaiah say that our sins our completely wiped out by God? Micah 7:18-19, Isaiah 43:25.
The list just goes on and on. There is plenty of evidence throughout the Bible for eternal security and for most of the Protestant theology.
Perhaps a "quote" will be useful just then when it comes to Martin Luther and Once Saved Always Saved.
So then we have this
“Through baptism these people threw out unbelief, had their unclean way of life washed away, and entered into a pure life of faith and love. Now they fall away into unbelief” – Martin Luther, Commentary on 2 Peter 2:22
Idk how accurate this is but apparently, here's a chart explaining the Church's as a whole's beliefs on Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura:
Three-in-ten U.S. Protestants believe in both sola fide and sola scriptura
I am aware of that quote from Luther but here's an article saying what Luther believed about Sola Fide and many of his teachings.
Martin Luther's Explanation of Faith, Faith Alone and Faith That Is Not Alone • EFCA
Luther believed that we were saved by faith alone but the faith that saves, is never alone. Therefore a faith that saves is a Christian willing to do good works, to live a Godly life for God, To completely and totally change their prior ways, To get baptized (Luther never really commented on whether or not infant baptism counts but the Baptists argue that the only valid form of baptism is by full immersion, and there are some Protestant denominations that argue for infant baptism) ...etc. Luther argued that a Christian who is not willing to do these things, than they never really believed or accepted Christ at all. I have to say, I agree.
The fact that so many "Christians" are leaving the faith only shows to me, that they never had saving faith to begin with, never had the Holy Spirit, and Eternal Security doesn't apply to them. Because one of the signs of the Holy Spirit is that a person remains in the faith for life. You have to have the Holy Spirit to have Eternal Security.
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