Why Protestant?

[Striver]

I'm not really aware of too many Baptists who actively seek to get outside the label of Protestantism. I think it's more of an issue of degrees with creeds and tradition in general being less highly viewed by Baptists, so it's not an active area of focus. I find it difficult to place Baptists outside of the Protestant realm, it is worthwhile to acknowledge some level of influence from the Anabaptist wing yet still the overall debt derived from their Protestant forebears.

There is also another element we miss in Protestantism, in a bit of chronological snobbery. The term protestant, broken up like pro-testant, calls to memory the prefix pro- meaning to be for something. Rather than our modern era, to which some degree is obsessed with the notion of protesting. Yes it did have relation specifically to the Lutherans in Germany, but in the era when city-states and regions were effectively laboratories of denominations, it quickly took on a greater meaning.

It's sort of like arguing that Anglicanism specifically derived from a certain king wanting his marriage a certain way launched Anglicanism. To some extent this is a historically accurate statement, but had the continent not be undergoing the Reformation, then it would not have happened and thus is very far from the full story.

 

[Goodbook]

Baptists dont consider themselves protestant its just a label given by catholics to any christian that doesnt agree with the catholic church.

Baptists didnt break away from catholicism as far as I know it never had any connection with it.

Lutherans did because it was Martin Luther who first protested with the 99 theses against the wittenberg door. Martin Luther was originally catholic, and the church denom thats named after him broke away from catholic tradtions.

Im not a theologian but..in baptist churches we dont even mention catholicism its really nothing to do with us. What the catholic church does or teaches is not our concern...if people want to hear the gospel, that is.

Baptists will get lumped into protestants cos naturally what baptists believe is not going to agree with catholicism.

 

[Dave-W]

Baptists dont consider themselves protestant its just a label given by catholics to any christian that doesnt agree with the catholic church.

Most Baptist groups' documents on theology and doctrine that I have read start off with them self-describing as being Protestant.

 

[Goodbook]

Intersting, i dont read that at all.
I think its a silly label. We arent defined by the rcc and shouldnt be.
If you look at the statement of faith on this site for baptists its not anti-catholic its just going from Gods Word.

Baptists are defined by what they believe, not what they dont believe.

 

[Albion]

Most Baptist groups' documents on theology and doctrine that I have read start off with them self-describing as being Protestant.

I think you're correct that some Baptists take this approach of insisting that their churches are not Protestant, but that more of them do not go for that idea. And those who do go for it most often are reading something into the word Protestant that isn't accurate.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

IMHO this is a bit more accurate as it shows the timeline

 

[Goodbook]

Here is an article which explains why baptists are not protestants...explaining a bit better or more clearly than what I can. The above chart is illusory its just connecting lines which have no relation to each other. Its like those evolutionary trees you see, not based on reality.

Baptists Are Not Protestants

 

[Albion]

Here is an article which explains why baptists are not protestants...explaining a bit better or more clearly than what I can. The above chart is illusory its just connecting lines which have no relation to each other. Its like those evolutionary trees you see, not based on reality.

Baptists Are Not Protestants

There are some problems with that article. For one thing, the Methodists are considered to be Protestants by it, but they didn't split from the Catholic Church either--the first characteristic that is said in this article to make Baptists NOT Protestants.

It looks like the idea is that to be a Protestant, one must protest against the Roman Catholic Church. However, that is not origin of the word or the meaning in common usage even today. The word originated with a protest against the Holy Roman Empire. It was not a protest against Catholic doctrines, although that's suggested in the article.

And the standard use of the word today in dictionaries, among academics, publishers of almanacs, etc. is of a group of churches that have certain doctrines, most notably Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, the priesthood of all believers, and the two (only) sacraments/ordinances of the Gospel (baptism and the Lord's Supper).

Baptists do adhere to or believe in all of those, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Goodbook]

Baptists did not come out of the calvinist reformed. I think some have now taken on calvinism with the difference of baptism by immersion, but actually baptists theology is very different from calvinism. (This is why you have a strange entity called reformed baptists, which are basically baptists who subscribe to calvinism)

Not sure what the origin of calvinism is, but it was lutheranism that tried to reform the rcc. When they couldnt, they set up their own churches. They were a 'breakaway' church.the rcc is always trying to get them back. They call them 'seperated brethren'. Their beliefs and practises are actually quite similar to catholicism, it is only on some points they protested.

Baptists have never tried to reform the rcc as they were not part of it, therefore had no reason to protest. Baptists just planted their own churches. Baptists have never had to answer to the pope or vatican.

 

[Dave-W]

There are some problems with that article. For one thing, the Methodists are considered to be Protestants by it, but they didn't split from the Catholic Church either-

Actually they did. Henry the 8th broke off the church of England from Rome, and then in the 1700s the Wesley brothers tried to reform Anglicanism but ended up breaking off Methodism from London. So they are definitely protestant.

This is yet another case of someone not liking a term; and then re-defining it in a way that excludes themselves. The problem is the only one who uses that twisted definition is themselves.

 

[Albion]

Actually they did. Henry the 8th broke off the church of England from Rome

Or the other way around, if that matters to you. Anyway, it wasn't created at that time.

and then in the 1700s the Wesley brothers tried to reform Anglicanism but ended up breaking off Methodism from London. So they are definitely protestant.

Whoa. They are no different from the Baptists, then, as regards their origins. THAT was the point I was making there in reply to an earlier post. IF Protestant is to be defined as any church that broke from the Roman Church (that was the claim, whether correct or not), and the Baptists allegedly did not have that start, then the claim I was reading that the Baptists are not Protestant but the Methodists are...is obviously false. You yourself just verified that conclusion with your reference to the origins of Methodism.

 

[Dave-W]

Whoa. They are no different from the Baptists, then, as regards their origins. THAT was the point I was making there in reply to an earlier post. IF Protestant is to be defined as any church that broke from the Roman Church (that was the claim, whether correct or not), and the Baptists allegedly did not have that start, then the claim I was reading that the Baptists are not Protestant but the Methodists are...is obviously false.

My point is that if you go back to the history of where a denomination comes from, if any of that was protestant then every group that divides off of that is protestant too.

IMO the modern institution of Messianic Judaism has a claim at being "not protestant" by reason of its progenitors being orthodox Jews that came to faith without outside influence.

 

[Albion]

My point is that if you go back to the history of where a denomination comes from, if any of that was protestant then every group that divides off of that is protestant too.

OK, but you directed your point to me who basically agrees with that POV. It was another poster who was arguing the "Baptists are not Protestants because they did not break off from the Catholic Church" idea.

 

[Dave-W]

I used your statement as a jumping off point. It was directed at the other poster and everyone else on the thread. Not you directly.

Sorry if it came off that way. IT was unintentional.

 

[GeorgeJ]

The Baptist congregation I attend considers themselves Protestants. I believe it's mostly the hardline fundamentalist and southern baptist churches that don't.

The link that was posted earlier "Baptists are not Protestants" is from a site maintained by an Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

[Striver]

One of the things that I wish more people understood regarding the Reformation was the nature of the interconnectedness of the various strands of Christianity. Baptists, Methodists, Protestants or whomever did not come about in some sort of vacuum nor did a creed, confession, book, or charter just drop out of the sky for any particular denomination.

It's one of the shortcomings of any chart in that each line demonstrating direct relationships but is unable to portray the give and take of what may be going on under the surface. Reformation Europe was an incubator of a wide range of developing doctrines that did this or that. These were all precursors to the denominations we have today whether born then or born later. Hence you have documents like the Second London Confession which which itself was related to the Westminster Confession and quite clearly tried to demonstrate it's adherence to Protestant orthodoxy.

 

[John Yurich]

Baptists are generally considered to be Protestants, though there are some that will deny that and others might say they are Anabaptists.

Baptists have much in common with the Anabaptists, such as rejection of infant baptism, advocacy religious freedom, and the emphasis on the believers' church.

However, we are generally considered Protestant, when most of Protestantism practices infant baptism, had state churches, and some of the earlier forms had a high church form of worship.

I say the only things Baptists really have in common with Protestants are the five solas and we are more tolerant towards Calvinism, unlike the Anabaptists.

If Anglicanism is a middle way between Catholic and Protestant, then could Baptist be a middle way between Protestant and Anabaptist?

If one is neither Catholic or Eastern Orthodox then one is Protestant. And therefore Baptists are Protestant.

 

[DeaconDean]

nm

 

[Albion]

If one is neither Catholic or Eastern Orthodox then one is Protestant. And therefore Baptists are Protestant.

That's the usual generalization, but there are exceptions on both the Protestant and Catholic ends of the spectrum.

 

[Dave-W]

If one is neither Catholic or Eastern Orthodox then one is Protestant. And therefore Baptists are Protestant.

I guess that depends on your definition of "Protestant."