Why or what is it that makes you or leads or led you to believe that a God does not exist...?

[quatona]

But, that's the great fallacy and deception... That he can't be known or conceived of by man... The thing about the true God is, is that he does want, and designed everything, and did things, so that we "could" actually "know" him, for that is his greatest desire for us, that we might "come to know" him and relate to him in a very personal, intimate way... But, for those that really want this, he designed it to a process of growth in "coming to know" him... The process of coming to, or arriving at, knowing him, being key... He has made is very possible and even not very difficult though... Many of you could easily come to know if you really wanted to...

Look, here you demonstrate the first and foremost problem: "God" being a moving target. As soon as you rely on the description given by one believer, the next believer will define "God" to be completely different.

Try "talking to him", and "watch" for a response, is only one example... Like "God, if your real, show me please (or then) please..." Is a good example, to start with...

No. Actually, I am pretty confident that a possibly existing God who is interested in an "intimate, personal" relationship with me finds his way to make his existence known to me. I don´t believe for one moment that this God would play the stupid hide-and-seek game that you assume your God plays.

 

[SteveB28]

Perfectly... So, your open to the possibility then... What's stopping or preventing you from "knowing" there is...? Since, you seem open to the fact that there "could be"...? Have you ever been willing to "take a chance" with him just based on the fact that there "could be"...?

God Bless!

The same thing that is "stopping" me from knowing anything else..........the absence of evidence.

The existence of a god, any of the gods which have been touted over the course of human history, should be the most important piece of information ever given to man.

And yet......nothing.

 

[SteveB28]

But, that's the great fallacy and deception... That he can't be known or conceived of by man... The thing about the true God is, is that he does want, and designed everything, and did things, so that we "could" actually "know" him, for that is his greatest desire for us, that we might "come to know" him and relate to him in a very personal, intimate way... But, for those that really want this, he designed it to a process of growth in "coming to know" him... The process of coming to, or arriving at, knowing him, being key... He has made is very possible and even not very difficult though... Many of you could easily come to know if you really wanted to...



Try "talking to him", and "watch" for a response, is only one example... Like "God, if your real, show me please (or then) please..." Is a good example, to start with...

God Bless!

The "true" God.....?

And that would be the one that YOU believe in, yes? The one that the next fellow believes in just has to be the false one, correct?

 

[Jimmy D]

If I bought into "most" Creation Science, I might not be a believer either, but I prefer to interpret the Bible for myself and not most of man's theories on the subject...

Are you not a man? Have you got some special insight us normal folks don't have? You bring your own biases to your interpretation the same as anyone else.

I will agree with most of you on the fact, that one good reason "not to believe", is because of many of the "followers" and what they say, do, and have done... But, I'd ask you not to believe that any man has the monopoly on God, nor is a "perfect" representative of God himself, and it is perhaps wrong of many of you "not to believe in him" or base your judgments of him, based on what any mere, imperfect man does or says about him

All we have is what 'imperfect man' has written, do you think the bible is some magic book direct from the hand of God?

but base it on what "he has to say about himself" only...

Yeah, still waiting for that. Unfortunately he's conspicuous by his absence.

 

[Jimmy D]

And for the record, although I put "Atheist" as my faith in my profile, maybe agnostic would be more accurate. I certainly don't insist it's not possible for there to be a God of some sort, I don't believe there is though, especially as described in any of the world's religions.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I'd say it behaves in a way that is consistent with "free will", a trait presumably endowed by our creator. I'm not exactly sure what you personally expecting.

I was hoping you could point to something that one would expect to see if there was a god and would not expect to see if there wasn't one. I see no such signs - on the contrary, all appears as one would expect if gods were the product of human imagination.

In my experience, some atheists tend to try to use the "omni" argument as a justification for a lack of belief in some very specific definition they wish to impose on reality. It doesn't really work that way however in the real world.

The traditional 'tri-omni' Abrahamic god concept is rightly criticised for being logically contradictory and incoherent. It was not an atheist 'imposition on reality' but an invention of the religious. It certainly doesn't work in the real world because it isn't real. A more realistic god concept might not be so easily dismissed, but it is what it is. It seems to me reasonable to me not to believe something unless there is convincing evidence or argument for it; I see no sign of either.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The Hebrew's were the first to conceive of "Monotheism"

'Monotheism' is a 17th century term. If you're referring to the practice, there were other documented monotheistic cultures around that time which probably predated the Hebrews, and there were almost certainly earlier monotheistic cultures.

 

[Dave RP]

Why or what is it that makes you or leads or led you to believe that a God does not exist...?

I posted this here in the Physical and Life sciences forum, because those are atypically the ones who think they have a good, logical, valid, or scientific reason for not believing a God does or could exist, and I'd like to hear those...?

Please post any and all good, logical, valid, or scientific, or other reasons for believing a God does not exist and how you came to know or believe you are certain of it, please...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I am certain that a God who is still involved in his creation does not exist, the god of the Bible or the Koran for example, one who will judge everyone and send them to heaven and hell, I am certain does not exist. My reasons are many, but mostly because the whole idea is so preposterous in my view that it cannot be correct. People who have been dead for thousands of years will be awakened, their bodies resurrected and then their soul put back into the body from where ever it has been for 2000 years and then the newly resurrected person tried and either condemned to hell or heaven - really? Where is heaven, where is hell, where are the souls of the dead between death and resurrection - it's all to ludicrous for me.

Then there is praying. I have a Christian partner/ lady friend who has some deeply troubling personal issues, she's been praying and paying and praying and nothing happens, her Church has been praying, nothing happens. They pray for peace every week, nothing happens yet when something good happens it's all due to good old God, even the good weather at the Church summer festival was God on the same day 200 people were blown to bits in Iraq. He has some strange priorities does her God. One of the speakers at her church even went as far as saying that the all powerful God allowed ISIS to come into existence because that shows how good Christianity is - I actually thought he was joking at first, but he meant it, the all powerful, all seeing God who can control the weather and make sick people well, allowed the rape, torture and murder of thousands of innocent people of all faiths to take place just to prove that his religion is better.

I find it impossible to believe that a God like that exists and would need some proper evidence to persuade me differently, that evidence cannot come from a book of stories mostly written hundreds of years after the event, it would need to be current and irrefutable. I am not holding my breath.

I will say that there may be something in how the universe works which is so far beyond the human capacity to understand that we label it God, but that would be it.

 

[Neogaia777]

'Monotheism' is a 17th century term. If you're referring to the practice, there were other documented monotheistic cultures around that time which probably predated the Hebrews, and there were almost certainly earlier monotheistic cultures.

The term we use for it may be, but the concept is not... I like how you say "probably", which means, I'm guessing, you don't have proof of this, but your just guessing... But, for arguments sake, let's say you do, and if you can find it, I'd like to know what it is and where I can reference it, and also what those ones believed about their conceived concept of a "One God" and how it compares or stands up to the Hebrews (Beliefs and concepts)...?

Also, Weren't the Hebrews the first to have an "Alphabetic" language as well, or am I wrong about that...?

God Bless!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Most of you know a lot about Creation, correct...? How can you "not see" a "God" in it all...?

I know about creation myths; they're creative ways that people imagined their origins. In the myths a god is usually involved, but not always. However, myths are not reality.

And, look at us... How can you "not see" how we are "like God", or that God is "like us"...

The creation myth is that we are 'made in His image'; for believers, it's true by definition. For non-believers, it's trivially circular.

The way we build, create, design, make things is getting closer and closer to, and this can or "should be able to" be clearly seen by now, The way we build, create, design, make "things" is getting closer and closer to the way a God actually "did" create, build, design, make, everything else..

You'll need to explain the 'reasoning' behind this. In the myth I was taught, God spoke the world into existence - are you suggesting we're getting closer to being able to create universes from nothing by word alone? If not, what?

 

[Neogaia777]

You people are all "lost", and you don't even know it... If you wish to know some of the parts and pieces of truth that can possibly "open your eyes" enough to see anyway, hopefully, I being only a man, I am "imperfect" in that I am "limited" to parts and pieces of truth, but unlike many others I do know much more about the truth of it (now) than most... How can I possibly explain it all here... Most of you "choose" not to believe... If your curious however, Look into all my posts under my username, other than that, I'm done (for now anyway)...

I'm not angry at or with any of you, I'm just getting tired and exhausted... I feel like Paul who went to the third Heaven and came back and just couldn't describe it, but I have done my best and done, not a perfect, but possibly a "decent enough" job anyway, if you wanna look into my posts, if not, what else can I say or do...?

God Bless!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You people are all "lost", and you don't even know it...

Was the the point of your thread? To get all judgemental on us?

Most of you "choose" not to believe...

If anything should have become clear from just about every response you received in this thread, it should be that that simply is NOT true or honest or even only remotely accurate.

None of us "choose" our beliefs.
We believe what convinces us.

I think I can speak for everyone in this thread that "beliefs" to us is not a matter of choice, but a matter of compulsion.

I can not "choose" to believe that I can jump from a skyscraper without a parachut and land unharmed.
I can not "choose" to believe that I can set myself on fire and won't feel any pain.

I am COMPELLED to believe that I will plummeth to certain death after jumping from a skyscraper.

I am COMPELLED to believe that I will experience much pain, and possibly not even live to tell the story, if I set myself on fire.

I don't "choose" to believe these things. Rather, reason and evidence compells me to.


I have never been presented with reason and evidence that compells me to believe in god(s). It's as simply as that.

I can understand that you don't comprehend how some of the things you find convincing for some reason aren't convincing to us at all... But please don't spread lies and deliberate misinformation.

You are not a mindreader.

When you ask for my reasons for being an atheist, don't then turn around and "disbelieve" my answer when you don't like it.

Contrary to what you seem to think, you do NOT know better then me why I believe something or not.

When you ask me for my opinion on something and receive it, don't turn around and tell me that it is not "really" my opinion, and on top of that even tell me what my opinion 'really' is.

The arrogance of doing such a thing, is mindblowing.

If your curious however, Look into all my posts under my username, other than that, I'm done (for now anyway)...

Already did that. I've concluded from that, that this isn't your first attempt at trying to tell people what their opinions are and acting like a succesfull mindreader.

I'm not angry at or with any of you, I'm just getting tired and exhausted... I feel like Paul who went to the third Heaven and came back and just couldn't describe it, but I have done my best and done, not a perfect, but possibly a "decent enough" job anyway, if you wanna look into my posts, if not, what else can I say or do...?

What else?

Well...... for starters, you could acknowledge the answers you get to your questions, instead of accusing us of lying or misrepresenting our own opinions...................

 

[Dave RP]

But, that's the great fallacy and deception... That he can't be known or conceived of by man... The thing about the true God is, is that he does want, and designed everything, and did things, so that we "could" actually "know" him, for that is his greatest desire for us, that we might "come to know" him and relate to him in a very personal, intimate way... But, for those that really want this, he designed it to a process of growth in "coming to know" him... The process of coming to, or arriving at, knowing him, being key... He has made is very possible and even not very difficult though... Many of you could easily come to know if you really wanted to...



Try "talking to him", and "watch" for a response, is only one example... Like "God, if your real, show me please (or then) please..." Is a good example, to start with...

God Bless!

I've seen people praying and talking to God, I've done so myself on occasions in the past, I'm afraid to say for me all that's there is in ones head. Yes it's a lovely thought that this God can interfere on earth and help with an individuals problems, or when we die we'll meet all our loved ones together in paradise, but in my opinion it's all an illusion.

I fully accept that my opinion may be wrong, if so I'm eternally damned, so be it and I respect everyone's right to hold their own opinion, their own faith and good luck to them.

 

[Dave RP]

You people are all "lost", and you don't even know it... If you wish to know some of the parts and pieces of truth that can possibly "open your eyes" enough to see anyway, hopefully, I being only a man, I am "imperfect" in that I am "limited" to parts and pieces of truth, but unlike many others I do know much more about the truth of it (now) than most... How can I possibly explain it all here... Most of you "choose" not to believe... If your curious however, Look into all my posts under my username, other than that, I'm done (for now anyway)...

I'm not angry at or with any of you, I'm just getting tired and exhausted... I feel like Paul who went to the third Heaven and came back and just couldn't describe it, but I have done my best and done, not a perfect, but possibly a "decent enough" job anyway, if you wanna look into my posts, if not, what else can I say or do...?

God Bless!

To be fair, if you ask a question of atheists or any other non believer, you should expect that you won't like their replies. I'm sorry if you're upset, we have different opinions/ beliefs that's all. If you're right, you're in heaven and good for you. If I'm right we are all dead and won't know it anyway, so there's no harm done to you.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

.. The thing about the true God is, is that he does want, and designed everything, and did things, so that we "could" actually "know" him, for that is his greatest desire for us, that we might "come to know" him and relate to him in a very personal, intimate way... But, for those that really want this, he designed it to a process of growth in "coming to know" him... The process of coming to, or arriving at, knowing him, being key... He has made is very possible and even not very difficult though... Many of you could easily come to know if you really wanted to...

And how do you know these are 'truths'?

Try "talking to him", and "watch" for a response, is only one example... Like "God, if your real, show me please (or then) please..." Is a good example, to start with...

Been there, done that - and more - before I ever learned about critical thinking and informed scepticism. Since then, it's become clear why people who follow your advice may think they get a response, it's called confirmation bias (other cognitive biases are available), and it's exploited by psychics, astrologers, and others of that ilk.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... I like how you say "probably", which means, I'm guessing, you don't have proof of this, but your just guessing...

No, it's not me guessing - I'm just describing what I've read. There were other, independent, monotheistic cultures around, and indications that some earlier cultures had a central deity, possibly with a pantheon of demi-gods, angels, demons, or whatever; the uncertainty is in the interpretation - one god or many? But it seems unlikely in the extreme that they all started at the same time and none preceded them.

Judaism started as polytheistic, becoming henotheistic, and only definitely monotheistic around 600 BCE. Some people used to think Christianity was polytheistic because of the confusing concept of the Trinity, and some think Catholic saints are a substitute for Roman polytheism. Without 'chapter & verse' from a knowledgeable insider, you can see how it might be uncertain in a thousand+ years time.

I'd like to know what it is and where I can reference it

You could start with Atenism. Shang Dynasty China (1766 BCE) is also worth looking up.

Also, Weren't the Hebrews the first to have an "Alphabetic" language as well, or am I wrong about that...?

Why don't you find out? Google is your friend...

 

[Jimmy D]

Then there is praying. I have a Christian partner/ lady friend who has some deeply troubling personal issues, she's been praying and paying and praying and nothing happens, her Church has been praying, nothing happens. They pray for peace every week, nothing happens yet when something good happens it's all due to good old God, even the good weather at the Church summer festival was God on the same day 200 people were blown to bits in Iraq. He has some strange priorities does her God. One of the speakers at her church even went as far as saying that the all powerful God allowed ISIS to come into existence because that shows how good Christianity is - I actually thought he was joking at first, but he meant it, the all powerful, all seeing God who can control the weather and make sick people well, allowed the rape, torture and murder of thousands of innocent people of all faiths to take place just to prove that his religion is better.

I find it impossible to believe that a God like that exists and would need some proper evidence to persuade me differently, that evidence cannot come from a book of stories mostly written hundreds of years after the event, it would need to be current and irrefutable. I am not holding my breath.

I couldn't agree more Dave.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You people are all "lost", and you don't even know it...

Yeah, we hear that a lot from people who think they have some special knowledge

.. unlike many others I do know much more about the truth of it (now) than most...

Modest too...

... Look into all my posts under my username, other than that, I'm done (for now anyway)...

From what I've seen, the little that isn't unsubstantiated assertion is vague fantasy. Feel free to point me to something of substance.

I'm not angry at or with any of you, I'm just getting tired and exhausted...

You poor thing; it must be so difficult to keep your temper when everyone is being so rational and sceptical about your claims.

 

[Cute Tink]

I ask you all then: "What about Christ...?" (explained in one of my other posts to someone)...

God Bless!

I don't find the Bible convincing either. If you are referring to the post right above the one talking about mine, you are making a series of claims that are backed by solely by the Bible which, as far as I can tell by your paragraph, is supposed to validate itself. I've read enough of the Bible that I don't find it to be the undeniable bastion of truth that you do.

 

[Jimmy D]

You people are all "lost", and you don't even know it... If you wish to know some of the parts and pieces of truth that can possibly "open your eyes" enough to see anyway, hopefully, I being only a man, I am "imperfect" in that I am "limited" to parts and pieces of truth, but unlike many others I do know much more about the truth of it (now) than most... How can I possibly explain it all here... Most of you "choose" not to believe... If your curious however, Look into all my posts under my username, other than that, I'm done (for now anyway)...

I'm not angry at or with any of you, I'm just getting tired and exhausted... I feel like Paul who went to the third Heaven and came back and just couldn't describe it, but I have done my best and done, not a perfect, but possibly a "decent enough" job anyway, if you wanna look into my posts, if not, what else can I say or do...?

God Bless!

I have to wonder what this 'truth' is and why it never appears to be anything other that people could think of themselves.