Why Old Earth creationism doesn't work

[BNR32FAN]

28I beg you, child, to look at the heavens and the earth and see all that is in them; then you will know that God did not make them out of existing things. In the same way humankind came into existence.

In the same way, humankind came into existence.

Bara does not mean ex nihilo creation. Creation can be completed in 7 days without the beginning needing to be ex nihilo.

Just as I can complete the creation of a batch of cookies in 7 days without that 7 day creation event needing to be about how I came into existence 30+ years ago from my mother's womb.

Ex nihilo creation occurred before the 7-day ex materia creation.

Just as the creation of me in my mother's womb came before the 7-day cookie creation event of December.

Genesis isn't about ex nihilo origins. It's about ex materia origins.

And I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat this before you'll understand.

You haven’t provided a shred of evidence to support this claim. You’re just making claims with no scriptural evidence to support it. The earth didn’t always exist because everything that exists was created by God according to John 1:3.

“All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

And I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat this before you'll understand.

You can repeat yourself a billion times and it won’t matter if you can’t actually provide any evidence from the scriptures to support your statements like I’ve been doing this entire conversation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Bara does not mean ex nihilo creation. Creation can be completed in 7 days without the beginning needing to be ex nihilo.

Just as I can complete the creation of a batch of cookies in 7 days without that 7 day creation event needing to be about how I came into existence 30+ years ago from my mother's womb.

Ex nihilo creation occurred before the 7-day ex materia creation.

Just as the creation of me in my mother's womb came before the 7-day cookie creation event of December.

Genesis isn't about ex nihilo origins. It's about ex materia origins.

And I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat this before you'll understand.

And I'll repeat this again. Just because Genesis doesn't describe ex nihilo creation, doesn't mean that God didn't create ex nihilo. It just means that that's not the story Genesis is telling.

Just because I can tell a 7-day cookie creation story, and just because that story isnt about the origins of my life from mothers womb. Doesn't mean that I wasn't born from my mother's womb. It just means that the story I'm telling you, isn't about the origins of my life. It's about an ex materia 7-day cookie creation, later in my life.

And with that, John can be correct, and Genesis can still speak of ex materia creation.

Now you’ve got to take Genesis 2:1-3 into account of how God rested from ALL the work He had done and how He rested from ALL His work He created and made on the 7th day.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from ALL His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What your saying is that He didn’t complete ALL His work in 6 days. You’re saying that He began it before the 6 days of creation then completed it later. That wouldn’t be completing ALL His work by the 7th day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nobody ever said that God didn't create ex nihilo. It's just that Genesis is not telling that story. Genesis is telling a different story about an ex materia creation that lasted 7-days.

- YouTube

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The ex nihilo creation story, is non existent. That story is simply not described in Genesis.

But Job! Shouldn't Genesis describe the origins of the universe!?

No! Why? Because it's not a science textbook. The authors of Genesis didn't know anything about the big bang theory or anything like that. They lived over 3,000 years ago before such discoveries.

The ancient authors are telling the creation story that they want to tell. Not the story that we want them to tell. And they're telling the story of an ex materia 7-day (as in 24-hour days) creation. And we can't force them to tell the story of an ex nihilo creation because they knew of no such thing.

Genesis 2:1-3 refers to ALL HIS WORK.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And I'll share this again because it's important. The Bible is clear:

And ill just quote this again. Genesis 1:1 is just a literary introduction. Nothing actually happens in Genesis 1:1. And Chapter 2 is written the same way.



And the evidence is right here in the Bible. I won't repeat, but I'll just quote myself. Every creation day begins with "and God said" so creation didn't begin until Genesis 1:3.



God creates with use of the spoken word. God creates by speaking. And since God didn't speak until verse 1:3, we know that creation didn't begin until 1:3. Verse 2 is just a background. Verse 1 is an introduction.

Also, Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.

1. In the beginning.
2.The land was without plants, water, or people to till the field.
3. Then God began creating by forming Adam.

Chapter 1 :

1. In the beginning
2. Earth was formless and void
2. God said let there be light

Just read the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that the formless earth in both chapter 1 and 2 is just a background description preceeding ex materia creation in verse 3 and in chapter 2 the empty land proceeds the creation of Adam from dust of the ground, ex materia.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The creative actions of God do not begin until verse 3. God creates through the spoken word. And that's how every single creation day begins.

And God said.

Look at every single creation day.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


And God said, and God said, and God said.

Every single day begins with the spoken word.

You see. In the Beginning when God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was already formless and void.

And Then, subsequently, God said. Let there be light in verse 3.

The Bible never says how long earth was formless and void prior to God's creative acts, in which case, the geneologies becomes completely meaningless to the age of the earth.

Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth which is part of the creation process. Genesis 2:1-3 says He completed all His work by the 7th day.

 

[Job 33:6]

Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth which is part of the creation process. Genesis 2:1-3 says He completed all His work by the 7th day.

Genesis 1:1 is not part of the process. The process doesn't begin until Genesis 1:3 with Gods spoken Word. And yes, the work was completed by the 7th day ex materia.

 

[Job 33:6]

Genesis 2:1-3 refers to ALL HIS WORK.

Yes, all His work ex materia. His work began in verse 3. And was completed by Day 7.

 

[Job 33:6]

Now you’ve got to take Genesis 2:1-3 into account of how God rested from ALL the work He had done and how He rested from ALL His work He created and made on the 7th day.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from ALL His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What your saying is that He didn’t complete ALL His work in 6 days. You’re saying that He began it before the 6 days of creation then completed it later. That wouldn’t be completing ALL His work by the 7th day.

No. His creation activities began in verse 3 with the spoken Word. His creation activities did not begin in verse 1. The initial ex nihilo creation is not described in Genesis nor is it part of God's 7-Day work described in Genesis.

 

[Job 33:6]

You can repeat yourself a billion times and it won’t matter if you can’t actually provide any evidence from the scriptures to support your statements like I’ve been doing this entire conversation.

And the evidence is right here in the Bible. I won't repeat, but I'll just quote myself. Every creation day begins with "and God said" so creation didn't begin until Genesis 1:3.

Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”





Look at these verses. Every single day begins with God speaking. And God said.



The initial ex materia creation doesn't actually begin until verse 3.



Verse 2, just like in Genesis chapter 2 with no plants water or people to till the field, is a description of the formless and empty earth. And then after the background description is given, then God forms Adam. And in Genesis 1, after the background description is given, then God says "let there be light".

God creates with use of the spoken word. God creates by speaking. And since God didn't speak until verse 1:3, we know that creation didn't begin until 1:3. Verse 2 is just a background. Verse 1 is an introduction.



Also, Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.

1. In the beginning.

2.The land was without plants, water, or people to till the field.

3. Then God began creating by forming Adam.



Chapter 1 :

1. In the beginning

2. Earth was formless and void

2. God said let there be light



Just read the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that the formless earth in both chapter 1 and 2 is just a background description preceeding ex materia creation in verse 3 and in chapter 2 the empty land proceeds the creation of Adam from dust of the ground, ex materia.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Genesis 1:1 is not part of the process. The process doesn't begin until Genesis 1:3 with Gods spoken Word. And yes, the work was completed by the 7th day ex materia.

Again this just just a claim.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, all His work ex materia. His work began in verse 3. And was completed by Day 7.

So God didn’t create the earth from nothing? It already existed?

 

[BNR32FAN]

No. His creation activities began in verse 3 with the spoken Word. His creation activities did not begin in verse 1. The initial ex nihilo creation is not described in Genesis nor is it part of God's 7-Day work described in Genesis.

So the earth already existed? It was never actually created by God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

No. His creation activities began in verse 3 with the spoken Word. His creation activities did not begin in verse 1. The initial ex nihilo creation is not described in Genesis nor is it part of God's 7-Day work described in Genesis.

Did God create the earth from nothing?

 

[Job 33:6]

So the earth already existed? It was never actually created by God?

Eh nihilo creation is not the story Genesis is telling.

It can be said that, just because God did ultimately create ex nihilo, that doesn't mean that this is what Genesis 1 is the story of.

God created the universe out of nothing (I agree ultimately that this is the case). But when God creates a baby in the womb, the two statements are not exclusive of one another. So if I said that God created you and me ex materia in the womb, you wouldn't say "no no, he made everything out of nothing".

That kind of response wouldn't make any sense. What matters is what Genesis 1 is describing. What matters is the story of Genesis 1. It doesn't matter what God did before Genesis 1. What matters is what Genesis 1 is actually talking about.

Genesis is a story regarding ex materia creation.

And so, if I'm talking about how God made you in a womb ex materia, you wouldn't run up and correct me by saying that God made all things ex nihilo out of nothing. I don't deny that ultimately. But that's not what the story of Genesis is about.

Nobody ever said that God didn't create ex nihilo. It's just that Genesis is not telling that story. Genesis is telling a different story about an ex materia creation that lasted 7-days.

As I can complete the creation of a batch of cookies in 7 days without that 7 day creation event needing to be about how I came into existence 30+ years ago from my mother's womb.

Ex nihilo creation occurred before the 7-day ex materia creation.

Just as the creation of me in my mother's womb came before the 7-day cookie creation event of December.

Genesis isn't about ex nihilo origins. It's about ex materia origins.

And I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat this before you'll understand.

And I'll repeat this again. Just because Genesis doesn't describe ex nihilo creation, doesn't mean that God didn't create ex nihilo. It just means that that's not the story Genesis is telling.

Just because I can tell a 7-day cookie creation story, and just because that story isnt about the origins of my life from mothers womb. Doesn't mean that I wasn't born from my mother's womb. It just means that the story I'm telling you, isn't about the origins of my life. It's about an ex materia creation, later in my life.

And with that, John can be correct, and Genesis can still speak of ex materia creation.

Nobody ever said that God didn't create ex nihilo. It's just that Genesis is not telling that story. Genesis is telling a different story about an ex materia creation that lasted 7-days.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The ex nihilo creation story, is non existent. That story is simply not described in Genesis.

But Job! Shouldn't Genesis describe the origins of the universe!?

No! Why? Because it's not a science textbook. The authors of Genesis didn't know anything about the big bang theory or anything like that. They lived over 3,000 years ago before such discoveries.

The ancient authors are telling the creation story that they want to tell. Not the story that we want them to tell. And they're telling the story of an ex materia 7-day (as in 24-hour days) creation. And we can't force them to tell the story of an ex nihilo creation because they knew of no such thing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God created the universe out of nothing (I agree ultimately that this is the case). But when God creates a baby in the womb, the two statements are not exclusive of one another. So if I said that God created you and me ex materia in the womb, you wouldn't say "no no, he made everything out of nothing".

Nope I’ve already made it clear that God made us from dust

 

[BNR32FAN]

Eh nihilo creation is not the story Genesis is telling.

It can be said that, just because God did ultimately create ex nihilo, that doesn't mean that this is what Genesis 1 is the story of.

God created the universe out of nothing (I agree ultimately that this is the case). But when God creates a baby in the womb, the two statements are not exclusive of one another. So if I said that God created you and me ex materia in the womb, you wouldn't say "no no, he made everything out of nothing".

That kind of response wouldn't make any sense. What matters is what Genesis 1 is describing. What matters is the story of Genesis 1. It doesn't matter what God did before Genesis 1. What matters is what Genesis 1 is actually talking about.

Genesis is a story regarding ex materia creation.

And so, if I'm talking about how God made you in a womb ex materia, you wouldn't run up and correct me by saying that God made all things ex nihilo out of nothing. I don't deny that ultimately. But that's not what the story of Genesis is about.

Nobody ever said that God didn't create ex nihilo. It's just that Genesis is not telling that story. Genesis is telling a different story about an ex materia creation that lasted 7-days.

As I can complete the creation of a batch of cookies in 7 days without that 7 day creation event needing to be about how I came into existence 30+ years ago from my mother's womb.

Ex nihilo creation occurred before the 7-day ex materia creation.

Just as the creation of me in my mother's womb came before the 7-day cookie creation event of December.

Genesis isn't about ex nihilo origins. It's about ex materia origins.

And I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat this before you'll understand.

And I'll repeat this again. Just because Genesis doesn't describe ex nihilo creation, doesn't mean that God didn't create ex nihilo. It just means that that's not the story Genesis is telling.

Just because I can tell a 7-day cookie creation story, and just because that story isnt about the origins of my life from mothers womb. Doesn't mean that I wasn't born from my mother's womb. It just means that the story I'm telling you, isn't about the origins of my life. It's about an ex materia creation, later in my life.

And with that, John can be correct, and Genesis can still speak of ex materia creation.

Nobody ever said that God didn't create ex nihilo. It's just that Genesis is not telling that story. Genesis is telling a different story about an ex materia creation that lasted 7-days.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The ex nihilo creation story, is non existent. That story is simply not described in Genesis.

But Job! Shouldn't Genesis describe the origins of the universe!?

No! Why? Because it's not a science textbook. The authors of Genesis didn't know anything about the big bang theory or anything like that. They lived over 3,000 years ago before such discoveries.

The ancient authors are telling the creation story that they want to tell. Not the story that we want them to tell. And they're telling the story of an ex materia 7-day (as in 24-hour days) creation. And we can't force them to tell the story of an ex nihilo creation because they knew of no such thing.

God rested from all His work. The Bible doesn’t say that the Genesis creation account was only what was created Ex materia, that’s just you saying that. Genesis 2:1-3 says He completed it by the 7th day. That means start to finish not just the end process. What you’re actually saying is that God did not create the heavens and the earth in 6 days.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But Job! Shouldn't Genesis describe the origins of the universe!?

No! Why? Because it's not a science textbook. The authors of Genesis didn't know anything about the big bang theory or anything like that. They lived over 3,000 years ago before such discoveries.

The ancient authors are telling the creation story that they want to tell. Not the story that we want them to tell. And they're telling the story of an ex materia 7-day (as in 24-hour days) creation. And we can't force them to tell the story of an ex nihilo creation because they knew of no such thing.

Genesis 1:1 is telling the ex nihilo creation account. It doesn’t matter what the author of Genesis knew because all of this information was coming from God not their own recollection.

 

[Job 33:6]

God rested from all His work. The Bible doesn’t say that the Genesis creation account was only what was created Ex materia, that’s just you saying that. Genesis 2:1-3 says He completed it by the 7th day. That means start to finish not just the end process. What you’re actually saying is that God did not create the heavens and the earth in 6 days.

Yes the Genesis account does say that creation was only what was ex materia created. Because the heavens and earth were ex materia created beginning in verse 3. Day 1 creation began in verse 3. And was completed by Day 7.

And yes, He did created heavens and earth in 6 days, completed on the 7th. And every time the Bible says "And God Said", it's describing those creative acts.

 

[Job 33:6]

Genesis 1:1 is telling the ex nihilo creation account. It doesn’t matter what the author of Genesis knew because all of this information was coming from God not their own recollection.

No it's not. Genesis 1:1 is just a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Creation doesn't actually begin until verse 3 when God uses the spoken Word to create. "And God Said". Which is what God does on every single creation day. God created by speaking.

So nothing actually happens in verse 1. It's just an introduction.

 

[Job 33:6]

No it's not. Genesis 1:1 is just a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Creation doesn't actually begin until verse 3 when God uses the spoken Word to create. "And God Said". Which is what God does on every single creation day. God created by speaking.

So nothing actually happens in verse 1. It's just an introduction.

And I'll share this again because it's important. The Bible is clear:

Genesis 1:1 is just a literary introduction. Nothing actually happens in Genesis 1:1. And Chapter 2 is written the same way.

And the evidence is right here in the Bible. I won't repeat, but I'll just quote myself. Every creation day begins with "and God said" so creation didn't begin until Genesis 1:3.

God creates with use of the spoken word. God creates by speaking. And since God didn't speak until verse 1:3, we know that creation didn't begin until 1:3. Verse 2 is just a background. Verse 1 is an introduction.

Also, Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.

1. In the beginning.
2.The land was without plants, water, or people to till the field.
3. Then God began creating by forming Adam.

Chapter 1 :
1. In the beginning
2. Earth was formless and void
2. God said let there be light

Just read the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that the formless earth in both chapter 1 and 2 is just a background description preceding ex materia creation in verse 3 and in chapter 2 the empty land proceeds the creation of Adam from dust of the ground, ex materia.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The creative actions of God do not begin until verse 3. God creates through the spoken word. And that's how every single creation day begins.

And God said.

Look at every single creation day.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

And God said, and God said, and God said, and God said, and God said, and God said.

Every single day begins with the spoken word.

You see. In the Beginning when God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was already formless and void.

And Then, subsequently, God began creating ex materia when He said "Let there be light" in verse 3.

The Bible never says how long earth was formless and void prior to God's creative acts, in which case, the geneologies becomes completely meaningless to the age of the earth.

Nothing actually happens in verse 1:1. It's just an introduction.