Why Old Earth creationism doesn't work

[BNR32FAN]

The scriptures do not say when the earth was created ex nihilo. Rather they only describe when creation began ex materia.

And this is just a simple fact of scripture that bara does not refer to ex nihilo creation.

Yeah I’m not watching a 5 hour video that’s ridiculous.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The geneologies are irrelevant to the age of the earth because Genesis doesn't say how long the earth was formless and void prior to creation.

Scripture also doesn't even say that Adam and Eve were the first people because Adam and Eve were never mentioned in Genesis chapter 1 on day 6.

If you understand what the word Yom means then it’s clear that the whole creation process was 6 days which would make the earth just 5 days older than Adam

 

[Michael Snow]

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The rebellion happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 plus earth just like water can not be aged determined.

That is simply reading something INTO the Bible that is not there in the text.

 

[Michael Snow]

If you understand what the word Yom means then it’s clear that the whole creation process was 6 days which would make the earth just 5 days older than Adam

You simply seem unable to read in context. Day One [literally 'one' NOT 'first'] (Gen. 1:3) is NOT "the beginning" of verse 1. Verse 2 tells you that.
The creation week in which God sets in order the earth of verse 2, and prepares it for man, FOLLOWS the creation of the universe--Gen 1:1.
In The Beginning

 

[Job 33:6]

If you understand what the word Yom means then it’s clear that the whole creation process was 6 days which would make the earth just 5 days older than Adam

Maybe you've never read the Bible before?

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The creative actions of God do not begin until verse 3. God creates through the spoken word. And that's how every single creation day begins.

And God said.

Look at every single creation day.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


You see. In the Beginning when God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was already formless and void.

And Then, subsequently, God said. Let there be light.

The Bible never says how long earth was formless and void prior to God's creative acts, in which case, the geneologies becomes completely meaningless to the age of the earth.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yeah I’m not watching a 5 hour video that’s ridiculous.

Most people who don't care about the Word wouldn't. And that's the difference between you and me. Here is a shorter video:
[

 

[d taylor]

That is simply reading something INTO the Bible that is not there in the text.

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So where was the garden of God, that satan occupied walking among the fiery stones

Different meanings of 'Earth' in Genesis 1

 

[BNR32FAN]

You simply seem unable to read in context. Day One [literally 'one' NOT 'first'] (Gen. 1:3) is NOT "the beginning" of verse 1. Verse 2 tells you that.
The creation week in which God sets in order the earth of verse 2, and prepares it for man, FOLLOWS the creation of the universe--Gen 1:1.
In The Beginning

No because you can only come to that conclusion by isolating Genesis from the rest of scripture. Genesis 1:1 says God created the earth and the heavens. Exodus 20:11 specifically says that God made the earth and the heavens and the seas and everything in them in 6 days. So Exodus 20:11 specifically tells us that Genesis 1:1 happened on the first day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Maybe you've never read the Bible before?

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The creative actions of God do not begin until verse 3. God creates through the spoken word. And that's how every single creation day begins.

And God said.

Look at every single creation day.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


You see. In the Beginning when God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was already formless and void.

And Then, subsequently, God said. Let there be light.

The Bible never says how long earth was formless and void prior to God's creative acts, in which case, the geneologies becomes completely meaningless to the age of the earth.

READ EXODUS 20:11! ACCORDING TO EXODUS 20:11 WHEN WERE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH MADE?

“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Job 33:6]

READ EXODUS 20:11! ACCORDING TO EXODUS 20:11 WHEN WAS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH MADE?

“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Bara doesn't mean ex nihilo, it's describing ex materia creation.

Or do you not know what I mean when I say this?

It would be like saying, For in 6 days, Job baked cookies for Christmas.

The creation did occur over 6 days, well technically 7 days because Genesis 2:3. But those 6 days do not actually mark the ex nihilo beginning of everything. Rather they're describing the ex materia beginning.

 

[Job 33:6]

No because you can only come to that conclusion by isolating Genesis from the rest of scripture. Genesis 1:1 says God created the earth and the heavens. Exodus 20:11 specifically says that God made the earth and the heavens and the seas and everything in them in 6 days. So Exodus 20:11 specifically tells us that Genesis 1:1 happened on the first day.

I would interpret the text as, it's saying that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. But bara simply doesn't mean ex nihilo creation.

And so, Genesis 1:2 didn't happen on the first day. It was the background description of the cosmos prior to their creation.

And not only that, Gen 1:1 did not happen before the first day either. It's just a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In the beginning, when Job began to make cookies for Christmas (introduction), the cookies were already a formless dough (background description). And then Job said, let their be chocolate chips and baking (God begins ex materia creation).

In this sense, the beginning isn't an event before creation. It's just an introduction describing conditions before creation began.

And creation is ex materia.
@Michael Snow

 

[BNR32FAN]

Most people who don't care about the Word wouldn't. And that's the difference between you and me. Here is a shorter video:
[

I’ve been quoting scripture the entire discussion. You keep ignoring Exodus 20:11.

 

[Job 33:6]

I would interpret the text as, it's saying that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. But bara simply doesn't mean ex nihilo creation.

And so, Genesis 1:2 didn't happen on the first day. It was the background description of the cosmos prior to their creation.

And not only that, Gen 1:1 did not happen before the first day either. It's just a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In the beginning, when Job began to make cookies for Christmas (introduction), the cookies were already a formless dough (background description). And then Job said, let their be chocolate chips and baking (God begins ex materia creation).

In this sense, the beginning isn't an event before creation. It's just an introduction describing conditions before creation began.

And creation is ex materia.
@Michael Snow

And actually, if people look closely, you'll see that Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.


‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:4‭-‬7‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Here is your literary introduction just like Genesis 1:1.


[5] when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no vegetation of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground, [6] but a stream would rise from the earth and water the whole face of the ground—

Here is your background description of the formless and empty land, like Genesis 1:2, no plants, no water, no people, etc.

[7] then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And then just like Genesis 1:3, and then, God began creating.
@Michael Snow

 

[BNR32FAN]

Bara doesn't mean ex nihilo, it's describing ex materia creation.

Or do you not know what I mean when I say this?

It would be like saying, For in 6 days, Job baked cookies for Christmas.

The creation did occur over 6 days, well technically 7 days because Genesis 2:3. But those 6 days do not actually mark the ex nihilo beginning of everything. Rather they're describing the ex materia beginning.

If I didn’t know what Ex Nihilo meant why would I quote Maccabees 7:28?

 

[Job 33:6]

I’ve been quoting scripture the entire discussion. You keep ignoring Exodus 20:11.

Exodus 20:11 is describing ex materia creation, not ex nihilo creation. If you don't understand what this means, that's your problem, not mine.

I agree, creation occurred in 6 days. The different is that, bara, means ex materia creation, not ex nihilo. And that's why your response is insufficient.

Bara doesn't mean ex nihilo, it's describing ex materia creation.

Or do you not know what I mean when I say this?

It would be like saying, For in 6 days, Job baked cookies for Christmas.

The creation did occur over 6 days, well technically 7 days because Genesis 2:3. But those 6 days do not actually mark the ex nihilo beginning of everything. Rather they're describing the ex materia beginning.

I would interpret the text as, it's saying that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. But bara simply doesn't mean ex nihilo creation.

And so, Genesis 1:2 didn't happen on the first day. It was the background description of the cosmos prior to their creation.

And not only that, Gen 1:1 did not happen before the first day either. It's just a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭-‬3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In the beginning, when Job began to make cookies for Christmas (introduction), the cookies were already a formless dough (background description). And then Job said, let their be chocolate chips and baking (God begins ex materia creation).

In this sense, the beginning isn't an event before creation. It's just an introduction describing conditions before creation began.

And creation is ex materia.

@Michael Snow

 

[Job 33:6]

.

And actually, if people look closely, you'll see that Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:4‭-‬7‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[4] These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Here is your literary introduction just like Genesis 1:1.

[5] when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no vegetation of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground, [6] but a stream would rise from the earth and water the whole face of the ground—

Here is your background description of the formless and empty land, like Genesis 1:2, no plants, no water, no people, etc.

[7] then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And then just like Genesis 1:3, and then, God began creating.

@Michael Snow[/USER

Also, every creation day begins with God speaking. God creates with the spoken word. And the spoken word doesn't occur until verse 3 when God said "let their be light". Meaning that the ex materia creation didn't actually begin until verse 3. Verse 2 is just a description of the uncreated or pre created cosmos. And verse 1 is a literary introduction.

 

[Job 33:6]

And actually, if people look closely, you'll see that Genesis chapter 2 starts the same way.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:4‭-‬7‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬

[4] These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Here is your literary introduction just like Genesis 1:1.

[5] when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no vegetation of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground, [6] but a stream would rise from the earth and water the whole face of the ground—

Here is your background description of the formless and empty land, like Genesis 1:2, no plants, no water, no people, etc.

[7] then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And then just like Genesis 1:3, and then, God began creating.

@Michael Snow[/USER

Also, every creation day begins with God speaking. God creates with the spoken word. And the spoken word doesn't occur until verse 3 when God said "let their be light". Meaning that the ex materia creation didn't actually begin until verse 3. Verse 2 is just a description of the uncreated or pre created cosmos. And verse 1 is a literary introduction.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NRSVUE‬‬
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”
[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.
[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


Look at these verses. Every single day begins with God speaking. And God said.

The initial ex materia creation doesn't actually begin until verse 3.

Verse 2, just like in Genesis chapter 2 with no plants water or people to till the field, is a description of the formless and empty earth. And then after the background description is given, then God forms Adam. And in Genesis 1, after the background description is given, then God says "let there be light".

 

[Job 33:6]

If I didn’t know what Ex Nihilo meant why would I quote Maccabees 7:28?

First off, Maccabees is apocryphal. So, you're drawing from uninspired words. Second, we know that humankind wasn't formed ex nihilo, humankind was made of dust and rib. As the Bible tells us. So really the error is in your understanding of the verse and context.

To not exist is to be formless and void. But it doesn't mean to be empty space.

Also, it can be said that, just because God did ultimately create ex nihilo, that doesn't mean that this is what Genesis 1 is the story of.

God created the universe out of nothing. But when God creates a baby in the womb, the two statements are not exclusive of one another. So if I said that God created you and me ex materia in the womb, you wouldn't say "no no, he made everything out of nothing".

That kind of response wouldn't make any sense. What matters is what Genesis 1 is describing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I would interpret the text as, it's saying that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. But bara simply doesn't mean ex nihilo creation.

Bara is used in Genesis 1:1.

 

[Matt5]

OE creationism doesn't work because if OE was in fact the case then you'd have to admit that the devil and his fallen angels and demons are all billions of years old.

Would God really allow his nemesis to live for billions of years? I don't think so.

And what would the devil have been doing for all those years? Tempting monkeys to sin? makes no sense!

Preparing planets across the universe for eventual human habitation.

We know that the concept of time doesn't apply to God. It may work differently for angels too.