Why not Rome?

[JasonV]

I'll have God as my Father, Jesus as my Mother, and the Holy Spirit as my "church". The rest is poppycock.

 

[ContraMundum]

I'll have God as my Father, Jesus as my Mother, and the Holy Spirit as my "church". The rest is poppycock.

That's very strange.

 

[laconicstudent]

I like Kallistos Ware in the topic.

'Orthodoxy also teaches that outside the Church there is no salvation. This belief has the same basis as the Orthodox belief in the unbreakable unity of the Church: it follows from the close relation between God and His Church. ‘A man cannot have God as his Father if he does not have the Church as his Mother’ (On the Unity of the Catholic Church, 6). So wrote Saint Cyprian; and to him this seemed an evident truth, because he could not think of God and the Church apart from one another. God is salvation, and God’s saving power is mediated to man in His Body, the Church. ‘Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its tautology. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church’ (G. Florovsky, ‘Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church,’ in The Church of God, p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: ‘How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!’ (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a ‘visible’ and an ‘invisible Church,’ yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.'

Indeed, I think you might also like something St. Theophan the Recluse said on the topic. Speaking to an inquirer:


"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins..."

 

[Basil the Great]

Why not Rome? My reply would be that it should not be necessary to confess to a human being to have a grave sin forgiven. We should be able to confess directly to God.

 

[ContraMundum]

Why not Rome? My reply would be that it should not be necessary to confess to a human being to have a grave sin forgiven. We should be able to confess directly to God.

You should read up a bit more on this- confessing one to another is very Biblical.

 

[CJtheCatholic]

Great replies everyone! It's awesome to see what everyone says on this issue.
I had a meeting yesterday with a Benedictine priest that I had met at Mass about two weeks ago. He is an extremely nice guy, very open minded and realistic about things. He is a hospital chaplain so I went to the hospital to meet him. We talked for about an hour and a half about all sorts of issues. I finally confessed to him that I have been thinking about becoming an Anglican (or Episcopalian to be exact). He asked me to just come up with one disagreement I had with Rome off the top of my head. I have been thinking about a vocation to the priesthood, so I mentioned priestly celibacy. We started to talk about it, and I was shocked to hear that he agreed with me on the issue! He actually mentioned the real reason for celibacy (the land/money disputes when it was instituted as a discipline in the Latin rite), and he actually said the church has pretty much tried to put a "theological blanket" on it (his own words!). We talked about some other issues, but I was so impressed with his being so real and down to earth with me. At the end of our discussion, he told me to keep in touch with him and tell him what happens, whether I "go to Canterbury", as he put it, or stay in the RCC.
It was like a breath of fresh air talking to him! lol but anyway, oh, another interesting thing, he doesn't exactly take Rome's position on Anglican orders. He said if the presiding priest or bishop had valid, traceable Apostolic succession, then the Eucharist they were celebrating is THE Eucharist as much as a Catholic Mass would be valid. I was really impressed to hear him say that!
Anyway, at this point, I still don't know where God is leading me, to be honest. I have met with some conservative Episcopal priests who have said that if I wanted to be a priest in the Episcopal Church right now, it might be a little difficult since I'm traditional/conservative. That worries me a little bit...well, actually the direction of most of the Episcopal Church is worrying me right now! I'm going to continue to pray and discern where God is leading me. May all things be done through Christ!

 

[JasonV]

CJ, to bad that monk isn't the Pope!

I wouldnt worry too much about your vocation. It will come when it's time.

 

[Basil the Great]

You should read up a bit more on this- confessing one to another is very Biblical.

True, but I do not recall a verse that says that it is a necessity to confess particular sins (grave/mortal sins) one to another or you will not be forgiven by God.

 

[Basil the Great]

Great replies everyone! It's awesome to see what everyone says on this issue.
I had a meeting yesterday with a Benedictine priest that I had met at Mass about two weeks ago. He is an extremely nice guy, very open minded and realistic about things. He is a hospital chaplain so I went to the hospital to meet him. We talked for about an hour and a half about all sorts of issues. I finally confessed to him that I have been thinking about becoming an Anglican (or Episcopalian to be exact). He asked me to just come up with one disagreement I had with Rome off the top of my head. I have been thinking about a vocation to the priesthood, so I mentioned priestly celibacy. We started to talk about it, and I was shocked to hear that he agreed with me on the issue! He actually mentioned the real reason for celibacy (the land/money disputes when it was instituted as a discipline in the Latin rite), and he actually said the church has pretty much tried to put a "theological blanket" on it (his own words!). We talked about some other issues, but I was so impressed with his being so real and down to earth with me. At the end of our discussion, he told me to keep in touch with him and tell him what happens, whether I "go to Canterbury", as he put it, or stay in the RCC.
It was like a breath of fresh air talking to him! lol but anyway, oh, another interesting thing, he doesn't exactly take Rome's position on Anglican orders. He said if the presiding priest or bishop had valid, traceable Apostolic succession, then the Eucharist they were celebrating is THE Eucharist as much as a Catholic Mass would be valid. I was really impressed to hear him say that!
Anyway, at this point, I still don't know where God is leading me, to be honest. I have met with some conservative Episcopal priests who have said that if I wanted to be a priest in the Episcopal Church right now, it might be a little difficult since I'm traditional/conservative. That worries me a little bit...well, actually the direction of most of the Episcopal Church is worrying me right now! I'm going to continue to pray and discern where God is leading me. May all things be done through Christ!

God bless you, CJ. I am glad that you talked to the Benedictine priest. I believe it is important that you fully explore the faith of your youth before making a final decision.

 

[CJtheCatholic]

God bless you, CJ. I am glad that you talked to the Benedictine priest. I believe it is important that you fully explore the faith of your youth before making a final decision.

Thank you kindly..I need God's blessing of guidance gratuitously at this point! lol

 

[RestoreTheRiver]

Great replies everyone! It's awesome to see what everyone says on this issue.
I had a meeting yesterday with a Benedictine priest that I had met at Mass about two weeks ago. He is an extremely nice guy, very open minded and realistic about things. He is a hospital chaplain so I went to the hospital to meet him. We talked for about an hour and a half about all sorts of issues. I finally confessed to him that I have been thinking about becoming an Anglican (or Episcopalian to be exact). He asked me to just come up with one disagreement I had with Rome off the top of my head. I have been thinking about a vocation to the priesthood, so I mentioned priestly celibacy. We started to talk about it, and I was shocked to hear that he agreed with me on the issue! He actually mentioned the real reason for celibacy (the land/money disputes when it was instituted as a discipline in the Latin rite), and he actually said the church has pretty much tried to put a "theological blanket" on it (his own words!). We talked about some other issues, but I was so impressed with his being so real and down to earth with me. At the end of our discussion, he told me to keep in touch with him and tell him what happens, whether I "go to Canterbury", as he put it, or stay in the RCC.
It was like a breath of fresh air talking to him! lol but anyway, oh, another interesting thing, he doesn't exactly take Rome's position on Anglican orders. He said if the presiding priest or bishop had valid, traceable Apostolic succession, then the Eucharist they were celebrating is THE Eucharist as much as a Catholic Mass would be valid. I was really impressed to hear him say that!
Anyway, at this point, I still don't know where God is leading me, to be honest. I have met with some conservative Episcopal priests who have said that if I wanted to be a priest in the Episcopal Church right now, it might be a little difficult since I'm traditional/conservative. That worries me a little bit...well, actually the direction of most of the Episcopal Church is worrying me right now! I'm going to continue to pray and discern where God is leading me. May all things be done through Christ!

Let me encourage you to take a look at the Anglican Church North America, which brings together the Anglican Mission in The Americas (AMIA), the Convocation of Anglicans in North America (CANA) and other conservative Anglicans. I'm a priest in the AMiA, and I'm profoundly pleased to attest that our focus is on being the church, and fulfilling the Great Commandment and the Great Commission.

Michael

 

[lankyknight1990]

I certainly agree with you. Our EO (and OO) brothers and sisters would say that we separated from the Roman Church a bit late. In many ways we are closer to the EO than to the Roman Church or to the reform churches (well at least that's true for the non-Calvinists among us).

Not a chance in any chance. The minute your leadership started ordaining women and homosexuals was the minute the orthodox church stopped even considering reunification. The Orthodox church rejects liberalism, which is what the anglican church has become. Hence why many anglicans are becoming CATHOLIC, not vice versa.

 

[TomUK]

Not a chance in any chance. The minute your leadership started ordaining women and homosexuals was the minute the orthodox church stopped even considering reunification. The Orthodox church rejects liberalism, which is what the anglican church has become. Hence why many anglicans are becoming CATHOLIC, not vice versa.

May I remind you that this is the Anglican forum. If you wish to make misinformed and unwelcome rants then I suggest you go to a different forum.

 

[lankyknight1990]

May I remind you that this is the Anglican forum. If you wish to make misinformed and unwelcome rants then I suggest you go to a different forum.

i am not entering into the debate about liberalism and homosexuality right or wrong. What i am pointing out is the orthodox church is frustrated and cannot stand the anglican church.

 

[IowaLutheran]

Not a chance in any chance. The minute your leadership started ordaining women and homosexuals was the minute the orthodox church stopped even considering reunification. The Orthodox church rejects liberalism, which is what the anglican church has become. Hence why many anglicans are becoming CATHOLIC, not vice versa.

As to the portion of your post I have highlighted, yes, the Orthodox have stopped considering reunification with certain portions of Anglicanism. But, to a sizeable chunk of Anglicanism, the Orthodox are still talking about reconciliation:

http://www.nashotah.edu/Missioner/Advent2009.pdf

Orthodox extend hand to Duncan's new Anglican Church

 

[Colabomb]

i am not entering into the debate about liberalism and homosexuality right or wrong. What i am pointing out is the orthodox church is frustrated and cannot stand the anglican church.

You are making assumptions based upon stereotypes of the American Anglican Church.

 

[CJtheCatholic]

The last few replies I don't think are in Christian love, everyone...might I request we keep this thread on topic?

 

[mark46]

Metropolitan Jonah of the OCA disagrees with you. ACNA does not ordain active homosexuals. I believe that the TEC is alone in the Anglican Communion in that regard. And there are some diocese in the TEC that do not ordain homosexuals or recognize homosexuall priests or femal bishops.

And yes, ordination of women presbyters is an issue. Again, I believe only the TEC has women bishops. And we all have women deacons, whether or not we use the word.

For many Anglicans, it is the separating from other Protestants that would be the most difficult step to take (as well as declaring that several Calvinist doctrines are heretical).

Not a chance in any chance. The minute your leadership started ordaining women and homosexuals was the minute the orthodox church stopped even considering reunification. The Orthodox church rejects liberalism, which is what the anglican church has become. Hence why many anglicans are becoming CATHOLIC, not vice versa.

 

[mark46]

My first thought was to ask you whether the Benedictine priest was Roman Catholic or Anglican.
Anglican Benedictines, monks, nuns in Episcopal congregations, religious - Information, Resources and Directory from the Order of Saint Benedict.

There is certainly a stong monastic tradition in the Anglican Communion. The current archbishop has written books regarding early church and the desert fathers.
=========================

I would also recommend ACNA, since you are in the US. I live in a very conservative diocese within the TEC, but most aren't so lucky. It seems that we don't listen to the national leadership much.
=========================

Talking to priests is a fine idea, especially those of orders that lend themselves to having such discussions.
=========================

Great replies everyone! It's awesome to see what everyone says on this issue.
I had a meeting yesterday with a Benedictine priest that I had met at Mass about two weeks ago. He is an extremely nice guy, very open minded and realistic about things. He is a hospital chaplain so I went to the hospital to meet him. We talked for about an hour and a half about all sorts of issues. I finally confessed to him that I have been thinking about becoming an Anglican (or Episcopalian to be exact). He asked me to just come up with one disagreement I had with Rome off the top of my head. I have been thinking about a vocation to the priesthood, so I mentioned priestly celibacy. We started to talk about it, and I was shocked to hear that he agreed with me on the issue! He actually mentioned the real reason for celibacy (the land/money disputes when it was instituted as a discipline in the Latin rite), and he actually said the church has pretty much tried to put a "theological blanket" on it (his own words!). We talked about some other issues, but I was so impressed with his being so real and down to earth with me. At the end of our discussion, he told me to keep in touch with him and tell him what happens, whether I "go to Canterbury", as he put it, or stay in the RCC.
It was like a breath of fresh air talking to him! lol but anyway, oh, another interesting thing, he doesn't exactly take Rome's position on Anglican orders. He said if the presiding priest or bishop had valid, traceable Apostolic succession, then the Eucharist they were celebrating is THE Eucharist as much as a Catholic Mass would be valid. I was really impressed to hear him say that!
Anyway, at this point, I still don't know where God is leading me, to be honest. I have met with some conservative Episcopal priests who have said that if I wanted to be a priest in the Episcopal Church right now, it might be a little difficult since I'm traditional/conservative. That worries me a little bit...well, actually the direction of most of the Episcopal Church is worrying me right now! I'm going to continue to pray and discern where God is leading me. May all things be done through Christ!

 

[CJtheCatholic]

My first thought was to ask you whether the Benedictine priest was Roman Catholic or Anglican.
Anglican Benedictines, monks, nuns in Episcopal congregations, religious - Information, Resources and Directory from the Order of Saint Benedict.

There is certainly a stong monastic tradition in the Anglican Communion. The current archbishop has written books regarding early church and the desert fathers.
=========================

I would also recommend ACNA, since you are in the US. I live in a very conservative diocese within the TEC, but most aren't so lucky. It seems that we don't listen to the national leadership much.
=========================



Talking to priests is a fine idea, especially those of orders that lend themselves to having such discussions.
=========================

A few people have mentioned ACNA. The funny thing is, I talked to one particular Episcopal priest who said he has no intention of taking his particular parish out of TEC (and his parish is one of the biggest here in the Upstate SC). He said he'd rather stay and be the "loyal opposition" than to simply be another splinter group. And yes, as you might imagine, he's a very traditional, evangelical priest. Most parishes and priests here in SC are though so it's not a surprise so much!