Why not Rome?

[ebia]

That is a fair answer, unless the other one is correct in its claims.

Indeed.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

url=http://www.infobritain.co.uk/Edward_The_Sixth.htm]Edward VI[/url]

You simply rejected one Pope and appointed another.

First let me thank you for the quotes and sources, I find them quite interesting and I enjoy adding to knowledge, I'm most grateful!

I do reject the papal magisterium as Traditional Anglicans do, we believe that authority lies ,today, with the College of Bishops. Regarding the Monarchy? Bishop Cosen of Durham famously remarked that his postillion had as much to say regarding the doctrines of the Church as did the king. Seeing that the King was S. Charles the Martyr? The position of the head of State is that of Chief magistrate and no more!

That's all very nice, but irrelevant. I'm still an Anglican BTW, although your guys (ACC) constantly tell us (ACA) that we're not real Anglicans.

Not wishing to offend you, but I have to agree with the ACC you spoke with.
However, I have only a vague notion of what the ACA believes? Are you part of the TAC? If that is the case, following what I know of the English set up, I believe they are Neo Anglicans, not holding to the truth!

Ironically, by Cranmers own words, you are not a real Anglican either since you reject God's vice-regent, the King/Queen of England.

Anglicanism is simply the Catholic faith with an English Complexion and we do not have to believe that idea, it went out with the Non jurors in 1788! Mind you had I lived in those times, between 1625 and 1788, I probably would have believed in the idea of the ,'Lords Anointed.'

At the times we re talking about, both pre and post reformation, both Anglican Catholics and Romanists believed that the monarch was God's Vice Regent, see Cardinal Pole's Liber de Conciliar! [1545]
Again thanks.

LFD.

 

[Imitatio Dei]

If you invite him to the debate on this would it be against forums rules for him to do so?

That's what I think he was getting at.

That was, indeed, what I was getting at.

I suppose, to debate, we would need to establish where the doctrine of the universal Church stopped developing (or are were we debating the sources of authority in church matters?). I imagine that LFD and I have different ideas of the development of doctrine in the Church. Such foundational differences may only allow us to talk past one another back and forth.

 

[CJtheCatholic]

Great post, LFD! Actually, great posts to everyone so far. I'm learning new things each time I visit this thread.
May God guide us all in truth and unity, even if we don't entirely agree with one another!

 

[Secundulus]

However, I have only a vague notion of what the ACA believes? Are you part of the TAC? If that is the case, following what I know of the English set up, I believe they are Neo Anglicans, not holding to the truth!

ACA is part of TAC. Out Bishops have unanimously stated that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the "most complete and authentic expression and application of the catholic faith in this moment of time." So, our theology is what it says in that catechism; our liturgy is Anglican.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

ACA is part of TAC. Out Bishops have unanimously stated that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the "most complete and authentic expression and application of the catholic faith in this moment of time." So, our theology is what it says in that catechism; our liturgy is Anglican.

I'm sorry to say then that in my opinion the TAC , is definitely a New Anglican formation, because it follows the medieval doctrines propagated by Rome!
In Britain the TAC, are a weak lot, they are Anglo Catholics, but appear to have no understanding about theology, Anglican Theology anyway!
LFD.

 

[Imitatio Dei]

Many of us are welcoming the TAC with open arms, especially those of us with Anglican roots.

 

[Secundulus]

[/b]

I'm sorry to say then that in my opinion the TAC , is definitely a New Anglican formation, because it follows the medieval doctrines propagated by Rome!
In Britain the TAC, are a weak lot, they are Anglo Catholics, but appear to have no understanding about theology, Anglican Theology anyway!
LFD.

I am sure there are many in TAC, just as there are many everywhere else, that don't have an intricate understanding of the doctrines, beliefs, and theologies of the two. However, there are those of us who have a very clear understanding of the doctrinal differences and understand Anglican and Catholic theology well.

So, it is a bit unfair to chalk the whole thing up to ignorance, as many are wont to do.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Why not Rome? Papal infallibility is too absurd an idea for me to accept.

 

[TomUK]

Why not Rome?

Maybe it's the defensive bone in me, but it's the sort of question asked when you reject an option a mainstream option rather than the leading high street best seller. "Why did you choose this brand of shampoo rather than the leading alternative..." etc.

As an Anglican i have tremendous for the historic church of Rome and recognise that within it dwells the historical source of Christian unity, ie. the bishop of Rome as the first among equals. Unfortunately Rome has fallen under a whole host of errors and when those errors are repented of then i hope and pray that then Anglican church will welcome the bishop of Rome under its wing and recognise him as first among equals.

We are not Anglican because we have chosen a quirky or alternative path. We are Anglican because we continue in the vein of the Church that Christ established.

Why not Rome? Because I am called to journey with Christ and Rome would be a longwinded detour.

 

[Aymn27]

Hey everyone. I won't go into long, boring details (lol!) but I have been praying and searching for where God is leading me, and I feel strongly He may be leading me out of Rome. But even if no longer ROMAN Catholic, I want to remain Catholic (as far as our ancient creeds, celebration of the Holy Eucharist, apostolic succession, etc). I think the Anglican communion might be where God is leading me. Right now, again, I am seriously seeking and praying for God's light.

The question I had for you guys and gals, especially if you are Anglican/Episcopalian, is this: what makes you not accept the authority of Rome? Do you consider yourself to be Catholic, just not ROMAN Catholic (well, of course you don't consider yourself RC or else you would be lol)? What do you personally believe makes the Church Catholic anyway? Is it communion with Rome or belief in the deposit of faith handed down through tradition and apostolic succession?
Thanks, and God bless all! Oh, and pray for me to recieve wisom (James 1:5-6)!

Speaking of apostolic succession: + =

I used to be Catholic, currently attend a Vineyard church - but theologically I am pretty much reformed Anglican - I'll give you a short list of the doctrines that I left Rome over (for what it's worth - I could have stayed and just been a 'rebel' but I respected Rome enough to leave when I didn't assent to its 'tenents' of the belief).

1. Salvation - is by grace through faith alone. I absolutely reject a works-based righteousness.

2. Marian doctrine - Immaculate conception specifically. Assumption as well.

3. Devotions to saints as if they are somehow omnipotent/omniscient.

4. Papal infallibility. Unbiblical/unhistorical.

5. Development of doctrine and the acceptance of traditions that go against Scripture. Scripture should be the supreme authority.

6. Sacrificial nature of the mass. Including the doctrine of transubstantiation which "overthrows the nature of a sacrament" and to me - clearly goes against the decree of the Council at Jerusalem:

Acts 15:19-21 (English Standard Version)

19Therefore(A) my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who(B) turn to God, 20but should write to them(C) to abstain from(D) the things polluted by idols, and from(E) sexual immorality, and from(F) what has been strangled, and from blood. 21For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him,(G) for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."

What I agree with in Anglicanism:

1. Orders of clergy - bishop, presbyter, deacon - no unbiblical law against a married clergy.

2. Scripture is guiding rule of faith - though tradition and reason are also considered.

3. Sacraments - Eucharist remains a mystery and is not explained in outdated philosophical terms.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Peace and all good,
Aaron

 

[ContraMundum]

Welcome back Aymn27!

 

[Aymn27]

Hello brother!! It has been a while! I hope you are doing well.

 

[lighthouse_hope]

I'm with TOMUK. I left Rome because I could no longer agree with Papal infallibility and the "new dogmas", so to speak. Yet that's no reason to become Anglican.

 

[mark46]

"Why Anglican"? would be a different subject entirely.

I'm with TOMUK. I left Rome because I could no longer agree with Papal infallibility and the "new dogmas", so to speak. Yet that's no reason to become Anglican.

 

[Dominic Korozya]

"Why Anglican"? would be a different subject entirely.

Aww... no one read my post...

 

[Justy90]

Hey everyone. I won't go into long, boring details (lol!) but I have been praying and searching for where God is leading me, and I feel strongly He may be leading me out of Rome. But even if no longer ROMAN Catholic, I want to remain Catholic (as far as our ancient creeds, celebration of the Holy Eucharist, apostolic succession, etc). I think the Anglican communion might be where God is leading me. Right now, again, I am seriously seeking and praying for God's light.

The question I had for you guys and gals, especially if you are Anglican/Episcopalian, is this: what makes you not accept the authority of Rome? Do you consider yourself to be Catholic, just not ROMAN Catholic (well, of course you don't consider yourself RC or else you would be lol)? What do you personally believe makes the Church Catholic anyway? Is it communion with Rome or belief in the deposit of faith handed down through tradition and apostolic succession?
Thanks, and God bless all! Oh, and pray for me to recieve wisom (James 1:5-6)!

Speaking of apostolic succession: + =

I was a cradle Catholic for 34 years. I left the RC to become Anglican. I felt the calling of the Spirit to the Anglican Communion in 2004 and haven't looked back. The waters of the Spirit run deeper in my Anglican church than I ever felt them before. God is taking me to new levels with a big one reached during this Lenten season. I love the Anglican church because I consistantly have a great prayer connection with God and I feel the peace of him that is indescribable. I know that I am at home here.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

I'm with TOMUK. I left Rome because I could no longer agree with Papal infallibility and the "new dogmas", so to speak. Yet that's no reason to become Anglican.

Do you mind if I differ with you over comment,[highlighted.] It is a very good reason to become an Anglican! Presumably, joining Rome was an attempt to become a Member of Christ and a Child of God as the Prayer Book directs us!
You say you left 'Rome over,'Infallibility and the New Dogmas?" The 'traditional' Anglican Church is what Rome was in the early days of the Catholic Church. She retains the same teachings that the early church propagated and Rome abandoned at Trent! She is the Catholic Church in Britain! [Or wherever the ancient faith is followed.]

 

[mark46]

I certainly agree with you. Our EO (and OO) brothers and sisters would say that we separated from the Roman Church a bit late. In many ways we are closer to the EO than to the Roman Church or to the reform churches (well at least that's true for the non-Calvinists among us).

Do you mind if I differ with you over comment,[highlighted.] It is a very good reason to become an Anglican! Presumably, joining Rome was an attempt to become a Member of Christ and a Child of God as the Prayer Book directs us!
You say you left 'Rome over,'Infallibility and the New Dogmas?" The 'traditional' Anglican Church is what Rome was in the early days of the Catholic Church. She retains the same teachings that the early church propagated and Rome abandoned at Trent! She is the Catholic Church in Britain! [Or wherever the ancient faith is followed.]

 

[ContraMundum]

Hello brother!! It has been a while! I hope you are doing well.

I'm not bad for an old man....how about you?