• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.


Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Kiwi Christian, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Kiwi Christian

    Kiwi Christian Active Member

    New Zealand

    The following things lacking from Islam, make it an unsatisfactory religion. Islam has:

    1) No sacrifice for our sins. “without shedding of blood is no remission (of sins).” (Heb. 9:22).

    2) No sinless Founder. “in him is no sin”. (I John 3:5).

    3) No Saviour from sin. “ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins.” (I John 3:5).

    4) No resurrected Saviour. “he was seen of above 500 brethren at once.” (I Cor. 15:6).

    5) No fulfilled prophecy in the Koran. “shew the things that are to come hereafter,that we may know”Is41:23
    6) No certainty of a home in heaven. “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” (I John 5:13; 2:25)

    7) No equality of Muslims in Christians in law.

    8) No equality of Muslim men and women in law (Q4:34..women ye fear rebellion…scourge them)

    9) No consistent standard of sin, eg: Muslim heaven has free sex and wine, which is wrong on earth.

    10) No genealogies and no dates in the Koran.

    11) No freedom to leave Islam. Grievous punishment or death to those who leave Islam (Q16:106).

    12) No mercy shown to a thief, or to those of other religions. (Q5:38).

    13) Forced female circumcision as part of forced conversion to Islam in Maluku Islands of Indonesia.

    14) No one raised from the dead by Mohammed. Jesus raised 4 people from the dead. (inc.Himself)

    15) No one healed miraculously by Mohammed. ‘As many as touched him were made whole’Luke 6:56

    16) No Old Testament prophecies telling us the time, place, or events to expect Mohammed. (Micah5:2)

    17) No democracy in Muslim countries, but rule is by dictators.

    18) No agreement with the Bible and with Old Testament prophets.

    19) Allah is a very different personality from Jehovah of OT. Allah seduces 15:39,lies74:39,enslaves 33:50.
    20) Islam worships the wrong god. “And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Exodus 20:1-3). Worship YHWH, not Allah.

    21) Islam trusts the wrong line of God’s blessing. God promised the Messiah to come

    through Isaac (Genesis 17:19-21; 21:12) not through Ishmael. [The Bible

    teaches us to love our enemies.

    22) Quran teaches terror against non Muslims (Q8:12,60,65,67,74; 9:39,41,111,123). (Matthew 5:44).

    “Christina Sagat shakes with fear…as she tells her story of brutal circumcision in a forced conversion to Islam. Her physical wounds have healed but this 32-year-old is left with the deep pain of sorrow and humiliation. She is among hundreds of Christians, including children and pregnant women, forcibly circumcised as part of a campaign by extremists (terrorists) to spread Islam through the war-ravaged Maluku islands in Eastern Indonesia. In the biggest city in the (Maluku) Islands (of Indonesia), Ambon, church and other groups have gathered evidence that 3,928 villagers on at least six islands have been forced to convert to Islam under the threat of death, torture or destruction of their homes. They believe that local Muslim clerics, possibly under duress from extremists, circumcised almost all the converts.

    Kostantinus Idi, 22,…. said one of the clerics urinated on his wound, saying it would stop infection.”
    The Sydney Morning Herald, page 1,2,41. Saturday, January 26,27, 2001.

    1. The Meaning of Islam

    2. Pre-Islamic Arabian Origin of the Quran

    3. Why is the Crescent Moon Islam’s Symbol?

    4. Is Allah the One True God of the Bible?

    5. Importance of Islam
    6. The Goal of Islam
    7. The Life of Mohammed
    8. Mohammed’s Wives.

    9. Allah, Mohammed & Quran Permit Lying.

    10. 2 Sermons by Demons in Quran to Spread Islam.
    11. Death to those Who Leave Islam
    12. The Hijra
    13. Raiding (Mohammed’s Profession) to Spread Islam.
    14. Predestination.
    15. Mohammed’s Death
    16. Mohammed Compared with Jesus Christ
    17. Is the Quran the Perfect Word of God?
    18. Mistakes In The Quran

    19. Major Mistakes in the Quran

    20. Arabian, Jewish and Christian Sources of the Quran

    21. Nonsense in the Hadith

    22. Jihad or Holy War

    23. Islam and Violence

    24. Common and Repeated Statements in the Quran

    25. Six Basic Muslim Beliefs

    26. Six Religious Duties of Islam

    27. Why You Should Not Become a Muslim

    28. What is Allah Like? Is he the God of the Bible? No!

    29. Allah’s Similarities to the Biblical Devil/Satan are:

    30. The Sonship of Jesus

    Reproduced by permission
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

    United States
    Depending on what denomination you adhere to there is no equality for men and women in the Church either...
  3. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    A long post to say that islam is a religeon of works with no assurance of salvation and an unfair legal system.
  4. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

    Also something that is true of parts of christendom, and large parts of it in the past.
    Don't confuse Islam with what muslims do, any more that we should confuse the Christian faith with what "Christians" do. Don't confuse Islam with politics in certain muslim countries. Democracy has innumerable variations, and is not necessarily "christian."

    Otherwise an interesting list. But few of the listed items are why I have chosen not to adopt Islam as my religion.
  5. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    I am refering to what islam teaches not just what muslims do.

    There is no such thing as 'christendom' as there has never been any country that actually put into practise what Christianity teaches.
  6. Joshua_5

    Joshua_5 Active Member

    You listed a lot of undesirable and even barbaric aspects and practices of Islam, but these would all be worth it if they could save one from an eternity in hell-fire. The one reason no one should convert to Islam is that it doesn't save - only Jesus Christ can do that.
  7. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

    Does this imply that there is no such thing as a Christian because there has never been a follower of Christ that actually and totally consistently put into practice what Christ taught? There are certainly quite a few countries that claim to be "christian" and some try to use their christian heritage as an excuse to limit the growth of other faiths within their borders, either by limiting immigration of imposing other restrictions on the practice of their beliefs and value systems. Note: I am not supporting any policy one way or another - just trying to express a need to be consistent in arguments.
  8. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

    Yes, you are right to place this question. However, discussing it honestly and as objectively as possible requires a common definition of religion, cultural practice, and the difference between them. This is very difficult to do I have noticed. Without doing it though will inevitably lead to the discussants talking past each other. Perhaps I can tell you what my reasons are in a private conversation, then you can tell me if you think they are cultural practices in your view.

    But to illustrate: I worked many years in a muslim country and made very close friends with devout muslims. We focused first on many of the things we had in common before touching on things over which we had significant differences. I will never forget one thing one of my friends said to me. "No doubt if I had grown up in your country I would have become a Christian, and if you had been born here, you would have become muslim." I think this is probably true for many people. Speaking for herself she believed it completely and could not accept the idea of having a free choice to give up Islam for Christ (the prophet Isa).

    I currently live in a country which at the time of my birth also automatically "claimed" any child born in the country to be a member of the State Church, unless the parents explicitly decided otherwise. However, I was not born in this country, but one in which there was a huge variety of "religions" or actually "belief systems" the most prevalent being animism. My parents were Christians but very independent of any particular 'brand.' It was made clear to me from a very young age that faith is distinct from religion, and one's faith is a personal choice. Moreover, they insisted that God, as demonstrated in Jesus Christ, wanted a personal relationship (which often has a communal dimension), not a creed or a set of rules. Relationships grow and tend towards closer and closer intimacy (and here I am not talking about sexual intimacy obviously), even partnership. Relationship is built on mutual love, and a significant component of love is mutual trust.

    My parents did not object or constrain me when I investigated other belief systems, including variations within christendom (and with this term I mean the whole range of systems claiming Christ as the source of their beliefs). I even took formal courses in several of them. My father in particular was very unconventional in his practices. I wouldn't know if he had anything one could call "cultural practices" unless it was a delight to get together with close relatives and friends for an evening meal and a lot of laughter. What are the cultural practices you are thinking of? He read a lot, studied many fields, but I have never thought of him as having any "culture." He even wrote a book describing how Jesus' disciples had great difficulty getting past their cultural baggage to understand what Jesus was really teaching, in particular about the kingdom of God. He saw first hand the harm done (to Christ's teaching) by 19th century missionary work that did not distinguish between faith and west European culture (Livingston fought a relentless struggle against the slave trade, but insisted on eating at a table, with a tablecloth with 'proper tableware,' even as he walked across the wilds of central Africa, one white man with a small army of men to carry all his stuff. And he insisted that Christianity had a mission to 'civilise.' He passed through nations which at the time had in many ways more democratic governance systems than England did.)

    So what you might consider cultural practice in nature, I might not even be aware of. And although I maintain I do not have or follow a religion, non-Christian colleagues would probably say I am very religious, because I don't swear, I don't smoke, I don't gamble, I never initiate a trip to the pub, but I do believe humans have a spiritual dimension, and that there is a higher power who (not 'that') is intensely interested in me and everyone else on this planet, and finally that Jesus Christ is the role model that I seek to emulate ... or more correctly whose spirit I seek to submit to daily.

    If you, Muslim-UK, wish me to go into more specific detail on why I decided not to be muslim, invite me to have a private conversation and I would be happy to share the reasons. And I would hope to do it in as respectful a way as possible.
  9. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    You raise a very good question.

    My answer is that Christianity is a faith between a person and God. It is not like many other beliefs a group, tribal, or national faith. So an individual will struggle to live out their faith.
    For a nation to be 'Christian' it should display 'Christian' characteristics in how its population acts and in its international relationships.
    Too often Christian is tagged on to a political belief.
  10. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    Yes the west was based on Christian values, but it is not currently.
    While the term has a historic use it cannot be said to accurately discribe the population of the west.
  11. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

    an intresting topic and look forward to so Muslim responces.

    I would like to add this taken from a a booklet by CW Parnell "You's like me to become a Muslim like you?" here is a summary of why he says one should not be a muslim.

    1) I lose my right to religious freedom.
    2) The Islamic faith is linked to war and force in a way that other main religious are not.
    3) My third reason for declining to be a Muslim is my feeling that the male person occupies too prominent a possession in Islam. Gender dominance is build into Islam in a manner I cannot accept.
    4) Islam misses the wonder of God’s love which is shown in the incarnation of Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection for us.