Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Aman777]

So heaven, air and land were created from water, which doesn't conform with Science then, Does it? FAIL!

Sorry, but I am getting the notion that you cannot read and comprehend.

Science is as "willingly ignorant" of some supposed firmament as it is "willingly ignorant" of inter-dimensional universe-creating space pixies, and as you just noted, doesn't agree with Science because of it, so FAIL!!!

I see. You're a comedian?

No evidence of such a thing, and evidence we do have shows Dinosaurs before Grass, which means it doesn't agree with Science, so it still FAILS!

ONLY if you are stuck with the false assumption that our Universe is the only one. In the end, you will see how utterly foolish is such a claim. God Bless you

 

[PsychoSarah]

Get in the program then!

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

AV, I've already explained to you that salvation in Christianity doesn't work that way. It is belief based, and since belief cannot be changed at will, that makes the Christian way of salvation not a conscious choice. I can't force myself to believe in something, nor could you force yourself to stop believing if you decided you didn't want salvation.

 

[pitabread]

AV, I've already explained to you that salvation in Christianity doesn't work that way. It is belief based, and since belief cannot be changed at will, that makes the Christian way of salvation not a conscious choice. I can't force myself to believe in something, nor could you force yourself to stop believing if you decided you didn't want salvation.

On a related note, it makes me wonder why you often see fundamentalists preach about Christianity as though one were buying an insurance policy.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Sorry, but I am getting the notion that you cannot read and comprehend.

I see. You're a comedian?

ONLY if you are stuck with the false assumption that our Universe is the only one. In the end, you will see how utterly foolish is such a claim. God Bless you

Firstly, I have done no such assuming regarding the number of any Universes except to say I don't know of any others - Secondly, your claim from the outset began as "The Bible, and Genesis in particular is 100% in agreement with Science", was it not?

The simple fact that more Christians than not, read something entirely different to you in the writings of Genesis is already reason enough for your claim to fail. This is all that's required for it to be disproven. I went a step further to show you the myriad of ways that your claim was still wrong, even if we held to your faulty assertion that you are the arbiter of the one and only correct interpretation of these writings. Since pointing out all these discrepancies and all the various translations and reinterpretations that have to go on to fit your view into Science, your claim morphed into any number of hideously contorted excuses to bridge that gaffing great gap. It either 100% agrees with Science, or it doesn't. The evidence shows it amply doesn't. Let me list the ways:

1. Science does not agree that Earth existed before stars existed.
2. Science does not agree that water existed before stars existed.
3. Science has no "firmament or alternate universe extricating into this universe" proposition, so this proposition doesn't agree with science.
   
4. Science has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs existed. Even if you are right and Science is ignorant of some firmament or alternative universe extricating into this universe that did have grass before Dinosaurs, the fact remains that Science still has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs, so this still fails.
5. Science shows Humans having evolved over time from an ape ancestor shared with Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and other great apes, with emergent intelligence resulting from our evolution. Science does NOT show any evidence of an introduced "Human Race" from another universe/firmament.
6. Science shows no evidence of Intelligent Humans existing for billions of years before this Universe began. Instead, it shows Humans are an emergent species of Ape that have come about in the last couple of hundred thousand years or so.
   
7. Science shows Whales coming from Land Mammals and did not exist before land animals existed.
8. Science shows Birds also coming from Land animals, so they too couldn't have existed before land animals existed.

This is as direct an addressal as possible for some (not all) of your Bible claims as measured against Scientific propositions. As for your "reinterpretations" of the KJV Bible to fit Science, these aren't the solution you think they are, and in some cases, you make things worse with your reinterpretations, especially when you insist your God wrote it directly. I want to address a couple more points on your reinterpretations, namely your insistence that Genesis 1:21 starts by creating all life from a single life form and I don't think you're correct. Apart from most other Christians whose Bible study on this reveals a different meaning to yours, a plain reading also indicates something different to you. I'll start at Genesis 1:20 to explain the point.

Genesis 1:20 - And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.​

Many bible studies on this verse indicate an open defiance to the established science of Evolution with the Creation narrative of individually created kinds - again in stark contrast to the contortions of your views to make it fit the Science. I also want to refer you to the Hebrew translations from which the KJV was derivd ( http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf ), and it says:

First part is: "| and-he-is-saying Elohim | they-shall-roam the-waters |" - which I don't believe means that God is roaming the waters, as it goes on: "| and-flyer he-shall-fly over the-earth|" - which again doesn't point to Jesus flying, but the winged fowls doing that flying. Genesis 1:210 then goes on to affirm what then happens:

First part is: "| and-he-is-creating Elohim | the-monsters the-great-ones and | every-of soul the-living the-moving which they-roam the-waters to-species-of-them |" which says nothing of this nonsense idea of yours that it speaks of the ancestor of all life coming from the water, but that water-bound life is being created according to their species, and not to God's/Trinity's kind..... whatever that means.... it then goes on: "| every-of flyer-of wing to-species-of-him | and-he-is-seeing Elohim that good |" which essentially speaks of all the winged fowl species being specially created, and God saw that it was good.

This is backed up with the Hebrew translation of Genesis 1:24-25 repeating a similar narrative for LAND BASED ANIMALS! as such:

In this case, it seems the Hebrew translates the Earth gender as 'She' or 'Her', which only fortifies the case against your dysfunctional reinterpretation of these verses on review. It again starts out with his 'making of', followed by the narrative (water/air/ or in this case, land) animals being individually and specially created according to their species, then God seeing that it was all Good. Sorry to break it to you, but your modern day reinterpretation of the 400 year old medieval english translation of the 3,000 year old Hebrew writing, doesn't make sense.

Also, you never did properly clarify what your version of "his kind" and "their kind" actually means. It obviously isn't a physical likeness and you seem to indicate some life forms were immortal, and others temporary, or something? Where is this explained in the Bible? How is something non-human immortal, and why the need for it to be immortal anyway? Is livestock required in Heaven?

 

[Aman777]

Firstly, I have done no such assuming regarding the number of any Universes except to say I don't know of any others - Secondly, your claim from the outset began as "The Bible, and Genesis in particular is 100% in agreement with Science", was it not?

Genesis 1:8 shows that God the Trinity made the FIRST firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day. Gen 2:4 shows that Lord God/Jesus made other HeavenS (plural) on the 3rd Day. That makes at least 3 Heavens.

• Science does not agree that Earth existed before stars existed.

Adam's Earth, made in the first heaven DID. Gen 1:8

• Science does not agree that water existed before stars existed.

Science is ignorant of the Earth where Humanity began. You should tell them.

• Science has no "firmament or alternate universe extricating into this universe" proposition, so this proposition doesn't agree with science.

Tell them to go to Lake Van, Turkey and they will find Adam's firmament on the bottom of the Lake covered in 11k years of volcanic sediment.

• Science has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs existed. Even if you are right and Science is ignorant of some firmament or alternative universe extricating into this universe that did have grass before Dinosaurs, the fact remains that Science still has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs, so this still fails.

Adam's Earth was made billions of years BEFORE the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 billion years, in man's time. Today is the 6th Day.

• Science shows Humans having evolved over time from an ape ancestor shared with Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and other great apes, with emergent intelligence resulting from our evolution. Science does NOT show any evidence of an introduced "Human Race" from another universe/firmament.

Science cannot show the process nor can it be repeated which changes Apes into Humans (descendants of Adam). It's because Apes are NOT the Human kind. One must believe in Magic and have great Faith in the ToE.

• Science shows no evidence of Intelligent Humans existing for billions of years before this Universe began. Instead, it shows Humans are an emergent species of Ape that have come about in the last couple of hundred thousand years or so.

Science falsely ASSUMES that Humans MUST have evolved from Apes since they are "willingly ignorant" of what God told us in Genesis.

• Science shows Whales coming from Land Mammals and did not exist before land animals existed.

Doesn't matter since "every living creature that moveth" came from L.U.C.A. whose origin was in WATER exactly as Gen 1:21 clearly states. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/.../behold-luca-last-universal-common-ancestor-life..

• Science shows Birds also coming from Land animals, so they too couldn't have existed before land animals existed.

ALL animals had their origin in Water according to Science. So far, you're batting zero. Try again?

 

[Gabbleduck]

So what do you plan to do with your beliefs, down there in Oz? In this country, the scheme is to replace science in the public schools with YECism and impose fundamentalist Protestant prayer and Bible study on all students, regardless of faith. There is a substantial political agenda as well--for more particulars, google Judge Roy Moore.

I don't know that much about Australia or how some of Creationists' favorite notions would play there. Recriminalize homosexuality? Relax or rescind gun control laws? Reinstate the death penalty?

Thankfully YEC's and bible literalists are a very small minority here in Oz, though seemingly a little over-represented in parliament.

As a recent country-wide survey and parliament vote to ratify same sex marriage showed, most here are pretty reasonable.

As for anyone trying to make biblical law supersede our secular parliament and laws, over my dead body.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Genesis 1:8 shows that God the Trinity made the FIRST firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day. Gen 2:4 shows that Lord God/Jesus made other HeavenS (plural) on the 3rd Day. That makes at least 3 Heavens.

I have no reason to believe that and Science doesn't support any of your "HeavenS (plural)" claim, so the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science does not agree that Earth existed before stars existed.

Adam's Earth, made in the first heaven DID. Gen 1:8

which doesn't agree with Science then, right? That's why the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science does not agree that water existed before stars existed.

Science is ignorant of the Earth where Humanity began. You should tell them.

Not my Job. I will note though that it doesn't agree with Science and you agree Science is ignorant of this other unfounded Earth idea, so the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science has no "firmament or alternate universe extricating into this universe" proposition, so this proposition doesn't agree with science.

Tell them to go to Lake Van, Turkey and they will find Adam's firmament on the bottom of the Lake covered in 11k years of volcanic sediment.

Not up to me to prove your unfounded Scientific claim, and therefore the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs existed. Even if you are right and Science is ignorant of some firmament or alternative universe extricating into this universe that did have grass before Dinosaurs, the fact remains that Science still has not confirmed the existence of grass before Dinosaurs, so this still fails.

Adam's Earth was made billions of years BEFORE the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 billion years, in man's time. Today is the 6th Day.

which Doesn't Agree with what Science says, so the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science shows Humans having evolved over time from an ape ancestor shared with Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and other great apes, with emergent intelligence resulting from our evolution. Science does NOT show any evidence of an introduced "Human Race" from another universe/firmament.

Science cannot show the process nor can it be repeated which changes Apes into Humans (descendants of Adam). It's because Apes are NOT the Human kind. One must believe in Magic and have great Faith in the ToE.

And Therefore even by your own admission, it Doesn't agree with Science, so necessarily the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science shows no evidence of Intelligent Humans existing for billions of years before this Universe began. Instead, it shows Humans are an emergent species of Ape that have come about in the last couple of hundred thousand years or so.

Science falsely ASSUMES that Humans MUST have evolved from Apes since they are "willingly ignorant" of what God told us in Genesis.

Nope, that's what the evidence indicates, which of course doesn't agree with your reinterpretation of Genesis and again even you concede Science thinks differently, therefore the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science shows Whales coming from Land Mammals and did not exist before land animals existed.

Doesn't matter since "every living creature that moveth" came from L.U.C.A. whose origin was in WATER exactly as Gen 1:21 clearly states. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/.../behold-luca-last-universal-common-ancestor-life..

As discussed elsewhere, that Isn't what Genesis 1:21 says, I re-emphasise that many, many more bible scholars, priests, rabbis and imams would agree with me before they would you on this. You are just guessing without any supporting evidence and the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

• Science shows Birds also coming from Land animals, so they too couldn't have existed before land animals existed.

ALL animals had their origin in Water according to Science. So far, you're batting zero. Try again?

lol! You aren't the authority on what Genesis says, and it doesn't say what you think it does - so The Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

Sorry Aman, I've tried to be nice about it but you insist your faulty reinterpretations are better than all the bible scholars, priests, rabbis and imams the world over who disagree with you - I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, but you simply don't have the backing to support your convoluted ideas about what the bible actually says.

In the end, it's all too easy to show the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science. Whether it be the word of God was too much for the fallible men who wrote it, or that something has been lost in translation since it was written, or even that it was never divinely inspired in the first place, it doesn't 100% agree with Science. Even if you're right and the Science is wrong, they still don't agree and my point still stands.

Good Luck Aman & best wishes. I'm done with this.

 

[Aman777]

which doesn't agree with Science then, right? That's why the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

Not my Job. I will note though that it doesn't agree with Science and you agree Science is ignorant of this other unfounded Earth idea, so the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

Not up to me to prove your unfounded Scientific claim, and therefore the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

which Doesn't Agree with what Science says, so the Bible does NOT agree 100% with Science!

The Bible MUST agree with True Science, not the changeable Science, you speak of. I speak of the end of God's work when everything agrees 100% with Scripture Science and History. The Scoffers of the last days of this Earht won't believe this because they have rejected God's Truth of the flood. ll Peter 3:3-7 Get back with me if you need help in understanding the verses.

Good Luck Aman & best wishes. I'm done with this.

Don't feel bad. It's the same with all people who put their Faith in the false ToE. After a while, they become immune to God's Truth. Some even run away with their arms waving over their head since they begin to understand that the object of their worship is nothing more than changes within kinds over time in a population. I'm sorry that you have believed in the false religion of Evolution, instead of God's Truth. Good luck in finding God's Truth before it's too late. God Bless you

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Good luck in finding God's Truth before it's too late.

lol! and You Too!

 

[Jimmy D]

The Bible MUST agree with True Science

LOL, and what's "true science"? Is it science that agrees with your interpretation of the Bible by any chance?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

LOL, and what's "true science"? Is it science that agrees with your interpretation of the Bible by any chance?

Brace yourself, It'll be a special magic "Right" science that lives in his head - nobody else could know about it, not even the people who wrote the bible!

 

[Aman777]

LOL, and what's "true science"? Is it science that agrees with your interpretation of the Bible by any chance?

No, it's God's unchangeable Science.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Changeable Science is the consensus view of most of today's godless scientists but is so called "Science" by those who have rejected God's factual Truth, which He always gets right the first time. False assumptions, supported by the majority, do NOT make facts. Sometimes they produce an idiot in the White House. Amen?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

No, it's God's unchangeable Science.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Changeable Science is the consensus view of most of today's godless scientists but is so called "Science" by those who have rejected God's factual Truth, which He always gets right the first time. False assumptions, supported by the majority, do NOT make facts. Sometimes they produce an idiot in the White House. Amen?

Ahh, so now there's a Magic Science! I Knew It! Why didn't you just profess the Bible is True and Inerrant and just leave Science out of it? We all get confused thinking you're talking about the substantial science we all know and love, not your invisible secret Science that nobody knows about.

it could've saved you and I a week of back & forth if you made that clear from the start.... -_-

 

[Jimmy D]

False assumptions, supported by the majority, do NOT make facts. Sometimes they produce an idiot in the White House. Amen?

I can get on board with that.

 

[Aman777]

Ahh, so now there's a Magic Science! I Knew It! Why didn't you just profess the Bible is True and Inerrant and just leave Science out of it?

The Bible is true to factual Science. The false assumptions of godless men about the ToE, are provably false, so it's not Science, but instead, is "so called" Science. Where's the proof of How and When mindless Nature installed superior thinking in Apes? It's non existent since it's a big fat lie believed by people who have rejected God's Truth.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

The Bible is true to factual Science. The false assumptions of godless men about the ToE, are provably false, so it's not Science, but instead, is "so called" Science. Where's the proof of How and When mindless Nature installed superior thinking in Apes? It's non existent since it's a big fat lie believed by people who have rejected God's Truth.

Yes, yes, you have a "Special, Magic In-your-head" Science thing going on. Let's just call it what it is. Denial. In fact, from here on, every time you're talking about your "Special, Magic In-your-head" Science, just replace it with "Denial" so we all understand which "Science" you're referring to. This'll save Heaps of confusion all round.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Where's the proof of How and When mindless Nature installed superior thinking in Apes? It's non existent since it's a big fat lie believed by people who have rejected God's Truth.

Yes, yes, you have a "Special, Magic In-your-head" Science thing going on. Let's just call it what it is. Denial. In fact, from here on, every time you're talking about your "Special, Magic In-your-head" Science, just replace it with "Denial" so we all understand which "Science" you're referring to. This'll save Heaps of confusion all round.

Thanks for confirming that there is NO evidence of mindless Nature installing God's superior intelligence, which only Humans have, Gen 3:22 in Apes. Your incomplete untrue ToE is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our innocent children. Since you have NO evidence, you are forced to believe in Magic.

 

[Par5]

Aman:>>Where's the proof of How and When mindless Nature installed superior thinking in Apes? It's non existent since it's a big fat lie believed by people who have rejected God's Truth.



Thanks for confirming that there is NO evidence of mindless Nature installing God's superior intelligence, which only Humans have, Gen 3:22 in Apes. Your incomplete untrue ToE is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our innocent children. Since you have NO evidence, you are forced to believe in Magic.

Evolution is a fact and all your talk of Satan, intelligent design and the totally false idea that evolution is being forced on people(it isn't) and any other bible babble, will not change that fact. You do realize that in saying evolution is non-existent you are backing up your claim by relying on things that are non-existent? Oh, the irony!

 

[Aman777]

Evolution is a fact and all your talk of Satan, intelligent design and the totally false idea that evolution is being forced on people(it isn't) and any other bible babble, will not change that fact. You do realize that in saying evolution is non-existent you are backing up your claim by relying on things that are non-existent? Oh, the irony!

Evolution is the filthy word exchanged for descent with modification within His and Their kinds. The Godhaters who dreamed it up rejected God's Truth in Genesis, preferring instead, their False assumption that Humans must have come from the common ancestor of Apes.

What they don't know is that the sons of God (prehistoric people) did NOT magically evolve Human's superior intelligence but were changed within one generation. Noah's grandsons, not having any other Human (descendant of Adam) to marry, married and produced children with the prehistoric people who were here for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived.

The bumpkins who dreamed up the false ToE also forgot about the flood which totally destroyed Adam's entire Universe. Read the true story in ll Peter 3:3-7. If it doesn't make sense to you, I will be happy to explain. Amen?

 

[Par5]

Evolution is the filthy word exchanged for descent with modification within His and Their kinds. The Godhaters who dreamed it up rejected God's Truth in Genesis, preferring instead, their False assumption that Humans must have come from the common ancestor of Apes.

What they don't know is that the sons of God (prehistoric people) did NOT magically evolve Human's superior intelligence but were changed within one generation. Noah's grandsons, not having any other Human (descendant of Adam) to marry, married and produced children with the prehistoric people who were here for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived.

The bumpkins who dreamed up the false ToE also forgot about the flood which totally destroyed Adam's entire Universe. Read the true story in ll Peter 3:3-7. If it doesn't make sense to you, I will be happy to explain. Amen?

Yes OK, whatever you say. Thanks for the offer to explain but I think I'll give it a miss, you explained enough in your post. There is only so much I can take at any one time.