Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Divide]

There is probably no God. The universe and everything in it probably came into existence by natural processes. Even if there is a God, there can be no compelling evidence for His, Her or Its existence. The belief in a supernatural creation and in detectable intelligent design is based on wishful thinking and ignorance of the scientific evidence. This is the fifth sentence.

Look at my above post to see the math on it.

Wishful thinking? You know, actually I used to think the same way. Then I began talking to Him and voila, He answered. He even spoke to me audibly once. So it's not wishful thinking. You may be full of wishful thinking that he wont be there when you die saying, give account of yourself...lol.

 

[Divide]

Matthew 7:23. Matthew 22:13-14. Matthew 25:41. Mark 9:43-48
'this is a damnable doctrine' (Charles Darwin).

So the Bible is wishful thinking, but Charles Darwin isn't? That's incredibly funny.

 

[Divide]

Some of your assertions are inaccurate, over-simplified, or irrelevant. For example, in a hydrogen-free atmosphere, even with higher surface gravity, ammonia and methane would probably be oxidised to nitrogen and carbon dioxide, with hydrogen escaping into space.

Irrevelant? Probably? hehe. So basically your counter argument is "Huh-uh"...?

There are two other points. There would be more reason to believe in a miraculous creation of life on the Earth if terrestrial conditions were not suitable for life. The fact that conditions are suitable for life suggests that it developed by natural processes. Second, if the Earth was designed to be suitable for life, why do creationists insist that life cannot have originated from non-life and that present-day living things cannot have evolved naturally from more primitive organisms?

Wow what school did you go to? This is an eco-system. We depend upon the plant and animal life to work in concert to keep conditions livable. That's 6th grade stuff friend. The examples I've posted are finely tuned rare relationships that come together to make it livable. The more rare these relationships are, the more unequivocally they reveal both, Skillful design in their origin, and diligence in their maintenance!

 

[gaara4158]

I can't agree with you here. First off, there's more planets without like than with life, so we can't expect to have fallen into a chance universe that permits us to live.

You've missed two important things here. First, you don't know there are more planets without life than with life. We don't even know how many planets there are. We have no idea how scarce life is on the planets we've never seen. But even if life is quite scarce, it doesn't break any of the laws of physics. The universe allows life to exist, whether it's of natural origin or otherwise. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here. So looking around and saying "Wow, what a coincidence that the region of the universe we find ourselves in is hospitable to life!" is ridiculous, because it really couldn't be any other way. It's like a puddle finding itself in a pothole and saying to itself "Wow, look at all the cracks and crevices in this pothole. They're shaped perfectly to match my shape!" The puddle, of course, has taken that shape to fit the hole it's in, not the other way around. In the same way, we are finely tuned to the rules of the universe, not the other way around.

You can't just keep calling it a fantasy or an unsolved mystery because even science is learning more every day. Mysteries are being solved, and they are pointing towards ID.

It's an unsolved mystery until it's solved. Mysteries get solved by evidence. Do you have evidence? We're already deconstructing your fine tuning argument, so do you have anything else?

The statistical probability that this all happened by chance grows larger everyday. There is too much fine tuning, and we haven't discussed a lot of it yet. Have you ever heard of Borels law? It states that at or above the level of 10-50th power can be considered absurd to have happened randomly.
The formula for linear arrangements is N=n!/(p! X q! X r!) SO how many elements have to come together to make life possible here? I don't know, a lot. Lwt me just rob a figure from a somewhat unrelated subject/equation for an example.

A simple binary string of 347 elements.
P(random chance)=2-347th = 2.8669 X 10-104th

Way above the point of absurdity which is 10-50th. Go ahead and check my math.

The universe isn't exactly random, but ignoring that, it doesn't matter how infinitesimally small the chances of us coming to exist by natural causes was. There's an unbroken chain of events starting thousands of years ago that had to happen in order for me to end up sitting here sending this message. Ancestors had to meet each other, technology had to be developed, political revolutions had to happen, etc. The chances of all those things happening were also infinitesimally small, yet here we are. Can you calculate how likely it is we were created by a god? If you answer yes, give me a number and explain how you got it. (Hint: you can't without first demonstrating there is a god.)

 

[Divide]

You've missed two important things here. First, you don't know there are more planets without life than with life. We don't even know how many planets there are. We have no idea how scarce life is on the planets we've never seen. But even if life is quite scarce, it doesn't break any of the laws of physics. The universe allows life to exist, whether it's of natural origin or otherwise. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here. So looking around and saying "Wow, what a coincidence that the region of the universe we find ourselves in is hospitable to life!" is ridiculous, because it really couldn't be any other way. It's like a puddle finding itself in a pothole and saying to itself "Wow, look at all the cracks and crevices in this pothole. They're shaped perfectly to match my shape!" The puddle, of course, has taken that shape to fit the hole it's in, not the other way around. In the same way, we are finely tuned to the rules of the universe, not the other way around.

This is actually wrong and I can prove it. I'm starting to get busy so be patient. We'll even go into some physics for you.

It's an unsolved mystery until it's solved. Mysteries get solved by evidence. Do you have evidence? We're already deconstructing your fine tuning argument, so do you have anything else?

Yep. I am as skeptical as you are, and did a whole bench of homework on this...I have my nores and will post them. Be patient.

 

[pitabread]

The statistical probability that this all happened by chance grows larger everyday.

The fundamental limitation of any such probability calculations is we don't have enough information to make such a calculation meaningful. We have no idea what the total probability space of such a calculation would look like, nor what the probability space of viable outcomes would be.

On top of that, we already know the universe exists. Even if we did calculate an infinitesimally small probability of its existence, so what?

In a way, it's like calculating the probability of your own existence. If you were to take all of the possible outcomes of every single event in history of the universe leading up to the moment of your own conception, the probability of that exact outcome is tiny. Yet, it's merely one of a host of possible outcomes.

 

[gaara4158]

This is actually wrong and I can prove it. I'm starting to get busy so be patient. We'll even go into some physics for you.



Yep. I am as skeptical as you are, and did a whole bench of homework on this...I have my nores and will post them. Be patient.

Which part is wrong? Very well, I shall wait.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There’s plenty of proof of creation. The most undeniable proof is we are here.

 

[Ophiolite]

There’s plenty of proof of creation. The most undeniable proof is we are here.

Demonstrate that the alternative explanations are incorrect. For starters, prove that the universe has not always existed.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Everything that exists has to be created. We can’t prove anything. Your original statement was there is no evidence of creation. Evidence and proof are two different things. My point is that our existence is evidence. When you examine all the evidence then the theory of God’s existence becomes more probable. When you examine everything that is necessary for life to exist on this planet and the biological design of life and the ecosystem and tons of other factors then calculate the probability of all these things coinciding together in one place to make life possible you will find that God’s existence is more probable than any other explanation.

 

[Aman777]

There is probably no God.

Then it should be easy for you to tell us of the magic required to instill the superior intelligence of God, in you and other Apes.

The universe and everything in it probably came into existence by natural processes.

Sure, but that is limiting God since He made at least THREE Universes. Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4 Are you speaking of our temporary Cosmos? If so, you knowledge is limited to a one third Truth, which is less than a half Truth. More study is indicated.

Even if there is a God, there can be no compelling evidence for His, Her or Its existence.

False since God told the entire HISTORY of His creation of the 3rd Heaven in the first 34 verses of Genesis. This is important since God's account of the creation AGREES in every way with every discovery of Science and History. That's God's Truth.

The belief in a supernatural creation and in detectable intelligent design is based on wishful thinking and ignorance of the scientific evidence.

False since Faith plus Facts equals God's Truth which is the Truth in EVERY way.

This is the fifth sentence.

Good since it is getting boring listening to your twisted view of God's Truth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here’s a series of videos that will better explain what is necessary for life to exist and just how much evidence there is that God does truly exist.

 

[Aman777]

For starters, prove that the universe has not always existed.

Adam's firmament and Earth existed some 3 Billion years before the Big bang of our Cosmos. Our 2nd Heaven/Universe was made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 and it was less than a Billion years until the FIRST Stars lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 and The First Stars in the Universe Each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in length showing that the beginning of our Universe was late on the 3rd Day while Adam was made at the beginning of the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7

God's Truth is the Truth in every way.

 

[Speedwell]

Here’s a series of videos that will better explain what is necessary for life to exist and just how much evidence there is that God does truly exist.

This discussion is not about whether God exists. It's about whether there is scientific evidence for a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation stories.

 

[Ophiolite]

Everything that exists has to be created. We can’t prove anything. Your original statement was there is no evidence of creation. Evidence and proof are two different things.

You say we can't prove anything, but in your previous post you state:
"There’s plenty of proof of creation. The most undeniable proof is we are here."

So, you not only state that there is plenty of proof, but the proof is undeniable. And now you tell me that we can't prove anything. It isn't really possible to argue with someone who switches their viewpoint 180 degrees between one post and the next. Will you be switching back later?

You also say that I said there was no evidence of creation. I don't know where you got that from. I have, not in this forum, made the point to fellow evolutionists that there is evidence for creation. It is very poor evidence, inadequate evidence, but it is there. If you can find anywhere on this or any other forum where I have declared there is no evidence for creation I shall apologise in this thread and in a thread specifically created for that prupose.

It is difficult to conduct this as a serious conversation if you don't pay attention to who you are talking to, what they are saying and what your own views on the matter are. I hope your future posts are not so deficient.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you believe in evolution there is no missing link

This discussion is not about whether God exists. It's about whether there is scientific evidence for a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation stories.

Ahh ok sorry I misunderstood

 

[BNR32FAN]

You say we can't prove anything, but in your previous post you state:
"There’s plenty of proof of creation. The most undeniable proof is we are here."

So, you not only state that there is plenty of proof, but the proof is undeniable. And now you tell me that we can't prove anything. It isn't really possible to argue with someone who switches their viewpoint 180 degrees between one post and the next. Will you be switching back later?

You also say that I said there was no evidence of creation. I don't know where you got that from. I have, not in this forum, made the point to fellow evolutionists that there is evidence for creation. It is very poor evidence, inadequate evidence, but it is there. If you can find anywhere on this or any other forum where I have declared there is no evidence for creation I shall apologise in this thread and in a thread specifically created for that prupose.

It is difficult to conduct this as a serious conversation if you don't pay attention to who you are talking to, what they are saying and what your own views on the matter are. I hope your future posts are not so deficient.

I probably should’ve been more specific. Our existence is proof we were created. It doesn’t prove we are created by God. There is no proof of God’s creation but there is plenty of evidence. And sorry I mistook you for the person who started this thread because my post was a reply to him.

 

[Divide]

On top of that, we already know the universe exists. Even if we did calculate an infinitesimally small probability of its existence, so what?

In a way, it's like calculating the probability of your own existence. If you were to take all of the possible outcomes of every single event in history of the universe leading up to the moment of your own conception, the probability of that exact outcome is tiny. Yet, it's merely one of a host of possible outcomes.

So what? So it's at least probable cause (Lol) to believe that it could be true, that it fundamentally points to an intelligence behind this delicately balanced design. It's the Anthropic Principle. In 1954 Sir Fred Hoyle even predicted, and then discovered, the previously unknown energy levels in the carbon-12 atom, from his sensitivity to the prevalent patterns of numerical design in the universe.

There's resonance involving Helium-4, Beryllium-8, and Carbon-12! Mass energy of each nucleus is fixed and cannot change, kinetic energy depends upon internal star temperature...which can be calculated.
Hoyle predicted that there must be a previously undetected energy level in the Carbon-12 nucleus that would resonate with the combined energies of it's constituent parts, under the conditions prevailing inside stars. Subsequent experiments confirmed this suspicion precisely.
Google it. It's verifiable Physics stuff man. Scientist and all that. It's what you guys wanted, lol. Want more. I got more. Hoyle was confident in the numbers pointing to design and proceeded with that approach...and it proved true.

Whoops, almost forgot. The actual prediction that Hoyle made proved out to be 7.6 MeV. Tada!

 

[Divide]

This discussion is not about whether God exists. It's about whether there is scientific evidence for a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation stories.

Yes there is Brother. We'll get to it in a bit.
Be patient. I'm coming prepared Brother...

 

[Divide]

It used to be hard to see God's fingerprints on Earth, but not after I got saved. Now I can't step outside without seeing His fingerprints everywhere! I can't make a tree, lol. They look awesome.

Science, quantum physics, math...they're proving and pointing to God's existence. They won't find the God particle that they seek, because it is love and it is God.

There's actually an enormous amount of evidence that the scriptures are truth. I gotta go make dinner right now, but, later...