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Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

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tas8831

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You give me a link that that, to the home page, and that is to suffice? What am I to do, begin a lifelong study of biology now, lol? Sorry Brother, you'll need to link specific pages with specific points to do that. I'm just too busy to put that much time into it. I hope you understand.


That page was the homepage for access to all of the DNA sequence data that you would need to prove your point.

So what you are saying is that you have all kinds of time to make mere assertions, but no time to back them up.

Got it.

So why should your claims be taken seriously?

You merely asserted that changing 'letters' won't work for DNA. Wouldn't such a conclusion take at least part of a 'lifelong study of biology now'? How much study did you put into that assertion about DNA? 5 minutes? Some sort of 'gut feeling'?



What do YOU know about genetics that others here do not?
 
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tas8831

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I sure do Brother. Scripture says that deception is the enemies primary tool, and that leads me to be very skeptical.

Interesting.

The known histories of how creationists operate leads me to be. Plagiarism, quote mining, quote doctoring, double standards, etc.
There is no evolution. It's a fabrication of man.


And you conclude this based on a life long study of the science?

Or just what your favorite authoritative figurehead at church tells you to believe?
 
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tas8831

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That's the philosophy of evolution for you.

We're all animals that are expected to act like human beings, aren't we?

The philosophy of Christianity is in essence 'do as God says, not as He does', for God commands and does some pretty sickening stuff.

Such as ordering the slaughter of children and the unborn for their parent's "sins."

So please - no lectures on how bad evolution makes people behave.
 
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tas8831

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I don't mind spending a little while on it here and there but I prefer to read scripture moreso than the scientific stuff because I know it's truth.


How can you know that?

Special pleading?

Question begging?
 
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Ophiolite

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Sure, gimme a few and I will and come back and edit my answer into this post, ok brother?
Take as long as you need to be able to formulate an answer you are satisfied with. But better to add a new post, else I may miss your response.
 
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Divide

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Special plead much?

I'm sorry man, but I'm not really sure what you mean by that. I would hope that it's not some kind of sarcastic slur, but, I don't know how you meant that for sure.

It's the word of God, and I believe it. Everybody wonders why are we here, where did we come from da da da, and I've lived 55 years here and seen and heard quite a bit through time...and I have come to the conclusion that...Something is true, there are real answers amid all of the confusion and deceptions. The truth is out there. Many different theories and so forth, and from what my 55 years tells me...is that, there is a God and He gave us an owners manual (Lol), and that's it...The Holy Bible. Is that ok with you that I believe that?

So we speak about a lot of things here on the board and discuss many issues of life and so forth. I'm just a man, like you, like others...many faults, some successes...and this is my belief and opinion. So I'm participating and speaking what I believe. I mean no harm to you or anyone, and you are under no obligations to agree or believe what I do. Or you can, it's up to you. I hope that you don't have a problem with that. And there's certainly no cause to become angry or frustrated because I may see things a little differently than you. Your sarcasm (if that's what it was) is uncalled for. Have a great day man, I wish you well.
:wave:
 
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Divide

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Take as long as you need to be able to formulate an answer you are satisfied with. But better to add a new post, else I may miss your response.

Yeah, that's probably a good idea, seeing as how fast the thread is moving. I did already though, it's in post #819. I wont do that again in effort to keep the continuity of the thread going and not make backtracking necessary.
 
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Divide

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So you say. But why should I believe you?


Well...you don't have to if you don't want to, but I'm personally fully convinced that it is the word of God and is the truth. The reasons for that are many. I have many testimonies which recount things that God has done for me, which proved His existence beyond a shadow of a doubt. He even spoke audibly to me one time. That was big man...

The thing is, is that 'If the bible is truly the Words of GOD...' then...this means it is a life and death situation for us to believe it and to seek Him out and become friends with Him, because if we do not...it is written, that we shall perish in eternal torment with the devil and his minions. That's huge Brother! We were warned, and invited to seek and believe in Him in His scriptures. John 3:16 is pretty basic. "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ...isn't that awesome?!

He HAS revealed Himself to be true, alive and very friendly and loving to me. So I am merely trying to pass on what I know to be a fact and express it to others. I'm not lying to you Brother, I'm trying to help. This stuff is true man. I am not kidding. He actually spoke to me. He has brought His presence upon me...and done many things for me, to show me and to teach me and to help me. I kid you not. I have many testimonies in the "Miracles and Testimonies" thread to recount some of these things. There is more than those also that I haven't written yet.

So...take it for what you will Brother. It is true.
 
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Ophiolite

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Well we was talking about science being a philosophy and I seen that scripture this morning so I posted it...

I see you looked it up in the BLB, lol. So did I just now, and perhaps you make a good point about that. It would seem that it is not talking about earthly science, but but perhaps some who twist scripture? I believe that it might be the root word for Gnostic, the way it reads...

Good catch Brother! ;)
Thank you for that. Yes, I routinely use the Blue Letter Bible. I find it a useful resource, since I don't have the experience of the Bible that many Christians do. It has a powerful range of aids.

I do believe that earthly science is good to an extent. We do know a lot of things. But there is also very much deception in the world, and that does include the scientific community. Many people blindly accept whatever they say (not being scientists themselves), just because they trot out government schills, like that Mikaku guy or Neil Degrass Tyson. I don't. If they did tell all the truthm then all scientists would agree! But they don't and it's for that reason.
There are two issues here:

  1. There are fraudulent scientists; there are incompetent scientists; there are scientists who jump to conclusions a little too early. However, the immense strength of science is that nothing is taken for granted. Experiments and observations must be repeatable. And they are repeated by diverse researchers before they are accepted. And scientists love to prove each other wrong, so there is immense effort to question just about everything. This makes it difficult for a faulty idea to last for very long.
  2. The science community could do a much better job of educating the public. Mikaku doesn't have a great reputation among scientists as far as I can tell. Too flamboyant and attention seeking. Tyson seems to be much more accepted. More needs to be done. (More could be done if we weren't fighting creationists all the time. :))
Cheers.
 
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Divide

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So why should your claims be taken seriously?

You merely asserted that changing 'letters' won't work for DNA. Wouldn't such a conclusion take at least part of a 'lifelong study of biology now'? How much study did you put into that assertion about DNA? 5 minutes? Some sort of 'gut feeling'?



What do YOU know about genetics that others here do not?

It's not that I know more than anyone about genetics, and it's not a gut feeling. But I happen to know that we were created and that evolution is false, a lie cooked up by man (led by evil spirits) to hide God. I may know more about God than some on this board...that, at least He is alive and it is the truth that He's there and He did create us. Therefore I don't really have to be an expert in genetics to be able to recognize that aspects of what they say about it are false.

You don't get something from nothing. They say, first there was nothing, and then it exploded...uhhh, it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to recognize that that is absurd.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? DNA and RNA are the same scenario. I know that much. Now, at this late date they're coming out with some scientific babble to try and explain that well blah blah blah blah, it will work because da da da. That's...absurd. And I don't need to speand half of my life pursuing it in the details to be able to debunk it with more scientific babble that's supposedly on their level.

Let me ask you something. Are you a geneticist? Are you a PHD in this stuff? I'm guessing no. So...what you are doing, is choosing to put your faith into other men's work, research and education rather than actually knowing it for yourself. Because you spent, uh...6 more weeks reading their material than I did, and are able to parrot some of their statements...doesn't prove anything. With all due respect brother. I mean no offense to you, but it's the truth. You have your faith in men, I have my faith in God.

It "sounds like" you know as little about God, that I do genetics. The difference is, I know God is real and His words are truth. You can not really say that about your scientists that you have put your faith into.
If you put as much time into reading scripture as you (seem) to read genetics, then God Himself would come to you and prove Himself real...as He has me.

:wave:
 
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Speedwell

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It's not that I know more than anyone about genetics, and it's not a gut feeling. But I happen to know that we were created and that evolution is false, a lie cooked up by man (led by evil spirits) to hide God. I may know more about God than some on this board...that, at least He is alive and it is the truth that He's there and He did create us. Therefore I don't really have to be an expert in genetics to be able to recognize that aspects of what they say about it are false.
It's not about the existence of God. It's about the Bible.
 
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Divide

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Thank you for that. Yes, I routinely use the Blue Letter Bible. I find it a useful resource, since I don't have the experience of the Bible that many Christians do. It has a powerful range of aids.

You're welcome Brother. I'm just being honest and I don't know it all. The BLB is an awesome resource, and many times I have looked things up, just to realize, wow I had that all wrong! Because the translators of it uh tried their best I guess, but knowing a language and it's subtleties is something that most of us don't have (at least with ancient Greek and Hebrew!) so many times, passages can be interpreted wrongly because of it. The best discussions are where participants have more academic (?) desire than pride or ego. I try to have this open minded academic honesty in effort to grow more knowledgeable and wiser rather than merely play games of I'm right huh huh huh. Anyone can be wrong and anyone can be right, to a degree. I have many faults and am wrong here and there just like everyone else. No better than anyone. (I've even learned a 'little bit' from obvious false prophets before, just because, the best lies are couched in the truth). The big difference in people, is...are they really trying to learn, so have academic integrity, or are they just trying to be right at any cost? These are easily recognizable people because most of the time, when someone makes a decent point...the regress into slurs and attacks rather than having a little honor and be honest. Eh, I try.

There are two issues here:

  1. There are fraudulent scientists; there are incompetent scientists; there are scientists who jump to conclusions a little too early. However, the immense strength of science is that nothing is taken for granted. Experiments and observations must be repeatable. And they are repeated by diverse researchers before they are accepted. And scientists love to prove each other wrong, so there is immense effort to question just about everything. This makes it difficult for a faulty idea to last for very long.
  2. The science community could do a much better job of educating the public. Mikaku doesn't have a great reputation among scientists as far as I can tell. Too flamboyant and attention seeking. Tyson seems to be much more accepted. More needs to be done. (More could be done if we weren't fighting creationists all the time. :))

1. Well, true that, however, they do know that if a lie is repeated long enough that it will be believed by academically lazy people. and the do have an agenda to 'hide God' and steer people away from Him. So just because like say, Darwinism for example...has been repeated for so long...doesn't really make it true. Lol. Agreed?

2. They could do a much better job than they do (if they didn't have the agenda!). My understanding is that the American Government, is somewhere along the lines of 50 to 75 years ahead of the mainstream as far as knowledge and technology goes. But they do not want to help and educate people, they choose to dumb us down in effort to enslave us. (People don't realize it, but I think the ancient Israelite's who were enslaved to Egypt for 400 years...had it much better than we do. It's that bad for us.)

I think Einstein was a Government shill too. Nikolai Tesla wanted to help people. But he wasn't on the payroll. Einstein was asked once, how's it feel to be the smartest man in the world? Einstein said, I don't know, you'll have to ask Nikolai Tesla...It's the same thing with scientists nowadays. The ones on the payroll play ball, and the others which aren't, are not because they speak truth. So the truth is out there, we just have to dig for it by bits and pieces. And be willing to say that's absurd, when it is.

The important thing for us, is to choose what's worth spending valuable time and what is not.
 
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gaara4158

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Well...you don't have to if you don't want to, but I'm personally fully convinced that it is the word of God and is the truth. The reasons for that are many. I have many testimonies which recount things that God has done for me, which proved His existence beyond a shadow of a doubt. He even spoke audibly to me one time. That was big man...

The thing is, is that 'If the bible is truly the Words of GOD...' then...this means it is a life and death situation for us to believe it and to seek Him out and become friends with Him, because if we do not...it is written, that we shall perish in eternal torment with the devil and his minions. That's huge Brother! We were warned, and invited to seek and believe in Him in His scriptures. John 3:16 is pretty basic. "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ...isn't that awesome?!

He HAS revealed Himself to be true, alive and very friendly and loving to me. So I am merely trying to pass on what I know to be a fact and express it to others. I'm not lying to you Brother, I'm trying to help. This stuff is true man. I am not kidding. He actually spoke to me. He has brought His presence upon me...and done many things for me, to show me and to teach me and to help me. I kid you not. I have many testimonies in the "Miracles and Testimonies" thread to recount some of these things. There is more than those also that I haven't written yet.

So...take it for what you will Brother. It is true.

If you didn’t have these faith-affirming experiences, would it be enough to convince you for someone to just tell you “hey, it’s the truth, man!”
 
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tas8831

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1 Timothy 6:20-21
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.../
When the bible verses come out, you know that the creationist has lost.
 
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tas8831

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I'm sorry man, but I'm not really sure what you mean by that. I would hope that it's not some kind of sarcastic slur, but, I don't know how you meant that for sure.

It's the word of God, and I believe it.

spe·cial plead·ing*
noun
argument in which the speaker deliberately ignores aspects that are unfavorable to their point of view.

Not a slur, not even sarcasm - a conclusion.

Though it could also be begging the question*:

"Begging the question, sometimes known by its Latin name petitio principii (meaning assuming the initial point), is a logical fallacy in which the writer or speaker assumes the statement under examination to be true. In other words, begging the question involves using a premise to support itself."


*both were top of the page google returns.
 
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tas8831

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Well...you don't have to if you don't want to, but I'm personally fully convinced that it is the word of God and is the truth. The reasons for that are many. I have many testimonies which recount things that God has done for me, which proved His existence beyond a shadow of a doubt. He even spoke audibly to me one time. .... It is true.

Anecdotes are not data; truth statements cannot be reasonably made from a lack of data.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'm sorry man, but I'm not really sure what you mean by that. I would hope that it's not some kind of sarcastic slur, but, I don't know how you meant that for sure.
Special pleading is a form of erroneous argument in which people essentially demand that the standard of evidence that their position has to meet in order to be considered valid be lowered. It's one of the more subtle terrible debate tactics, and people do it accidentally a lot. One of the most common forms of it is demanding significantly more evidence from the opposing position to even consider it, compared to the small amount of evidence necessary to believe one's own position.

It's the word of God, and I believe it. Everybody wonders why are we here, where did we come from da da da, and I've lived 55 years here and seen and heard quite a bit through time...and I have come to the conclusion that...Something is true, there are real answers amid all of the confusion and deceptions. The truth is out there. Many different theories and so forth, and from what my 55 years tells me...is that, there is a God and He gave us an owners manual (Lol), and that's it...The Holy Bible. Is that ok with you that I believe that?
Sure, why would I care what you personally believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Most atheists do not care if other people are believers (most care so little they'd never get involved in discussions about religion).

So we speak about a lot of things here on the board and discuss many issues of life and so forth. I'm just a man, like you, like others...many faults, some successes...and this is my belief and opinion. So I'm participating and speaking what I believe. I mean no harm to you or anyone, and you are under no obligations to agree or believe what I do. Or you can, it's up to you. I hope that you don't have a problem with that. And there's certainly no cause to become angry or frustrated because I may see things a little differently than you. Your sarcasm (if that's what it was) is uncalled for. Have a great day man, I wish you well.
:wave:
Honestly, you aren't frustrating to talk to. The only frustrating thing about you is the fact that you want to debate evolution and not put in the time to learn about it, and that's fairly mild. I could give some decent summaries for you, so that you know enough to get by on without having to get a college degree. Request and I will send one as a private message on here.

The real frustration comes from people bogged down with misinformation, because they are absolutely convinced that the garbage they spew is accurate, and there is no correcting them.
 
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