Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[tas8831]

Are you bragging or complaining?

I am gloating

 

[Neostarwcc]

Been away for a while, come back and see the same 'arguments' against evolution.

And it is always... ALWAYS... 'arguments' against evolution.

NEVER arguments FOR creation/ID.

Analogies to human activity, bible verses, 'problems' with evolution - none of these, not one of them, is evidence FOR creation or ID.


It is almost as if creationists have admitted to themselves, subconsciously, that they cannot actually offer any positive supporting evidence FOR their mere beliefs, and are content to simply attack 'the other.' This is true, whether the creationist is a one-line snark master, or a verbose citation and quote bombing autodidact.

There is plenty of evidence for creation. For one, just look at the world around us. It had to be created by something. Nothing in this world can exist without there being a God. Evolution has attempted to answer creation but, it raises more questions than answers. I personally don't believe in Evolution at all. For two, there is plenty of evidence in scripture that supports a young earth and creationism. People also knew the world was round long before science knew. How? From Scripture. I know many people don't see scripture as valid evidence. But, it can be an excellent tool for learning the truth. For three, Creation scientists have all but proven creation and debunked Evolution. If you're curious about the multitudes of evidence for creationism you can go to www.creation.com. It's an excellent website.

 

[Jimmy D]

Creation scientists have all but proven creation and debunked Evolution. If you're curious about the multitudes of evidence for creationism you can go to www.creation.com. It's an excellent website.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I think it's funny. You think I'm crazy yet didn't even look at the evidences I or others have posted. What I stated is true. That's Atheists for you.

 

[tas8831]

There is plenty of evidence for creation. For one, just look at the world around us. It had to be created by something. Nothing in this world can exist without there being a God. Evolution has attempted to answer creation but, it raises more questions than answers. I personally don't believe in Evolution at all. For two, there is plenty of evidence in scripture that supports a young earth and creationism. People also knew the world was round long before science knew. How? From Scripture. I know many people don't see scripture as valid evidence. But, it can be an excellent tool for learning the truth. For three, Creation scientists have all but proven creation and debunked Evolution. If you're curious about the multitudes of evidence for creationism you can go to www.creation.com. It's an excellent website.

Question begging is not evidence.

Scripture stories are not evidence.

And as far as "Creation scientists have all but proven creation and debunked Evolution", sorry but you are living in a fantasy world.

Here is a hint - I have been reading creation 'science' for about 25 years, and I have yet to see ANY actual evidence for creation EVER presented by any of them. But if you think there is some, feel free to bring it up here and EXPLAIN it, in your own words (as opposed to just posting a link and claiming victory).


I also have graduate education and experience in science and research directly related to evolution, so I will be able to tell whether or not your sources' claims have merit.

 

[tas8831]

I think it's funny. You think I'm crazy yet didn't even look at the evidences I or others have posted. What I stated is true. That's Atheists for you.

A link to a ministry is not the presentation of evidence.

Thats Evangelical creationists for you.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Question begging is not evidence.

Scripture stories are not evidence.

And as far as "Creation scientists have all but proven creation and debunked Evolution", sorry but you are living in a fantasy world.

Here is a hint - I have been reading creation 'science' for about 25 years, and I have yet to see ANY actual evidence for creation EVER presented by any of them. But if you think there is some, feel free to bring it up here and EXPLAIN it, in your own words (as opposed to just posting a link and claiming victory).


I also have graduate education and experience in science and research directly related to evolution, so I will be able to tell whether or not your sources' claims have merit.

Question, how can you be a Christian and not say that scripture is a valid form of evidence? We go to scripture for all sources of the truth.

A link to a ministry is not the presentation of evidence.

Thats Evangelical creationists for you.

It wasn't the Ministry. It was the evidences posted on the ministry. They've posted plenty of evidence supporting creationism on their website. Plus, another evidence for creationism that I forgot to mention. Faith. Faith in itself is an evidence for the Existence of God, Jesus, and creationism.

 

[Jimmy D]

I think it's funny.

Great, we need to maintain a sense of humour in these discussions.

You think I'm crazy

Not at all, I understand the reasons for your view point.

yet didn't even look at the evidences I or others have posted.

But....what....how?!?! Have you got access to my browsing history?

What I stated is true.

I believe that you think it is, and that you're sincere.

That's Atheists for you.

 

[tas8831]

Question, how can you be a Christian and not say that scripture is a valid form of evidence? We go to scripture for all sources of the truth.

I do not go to scripture for scientific truths. In fact, had it been a choice, I would have picked nominal Christian, leaning toward non-religious.

It wasn't the Ministry. It was the evidences posted on the ministry. They've posted plenty of evidence supporting creationism on their website.

No, not really, which is why I consider it a ministry.

Plus, another evidence for creationism that I forgot to mention. Faith. Faith in itself is an evidence for the Existence of God, Jesus, and creationism.

Faith is not evidence.

How about you pick some of that pro-creation evidence from creation.com and present it here and explain why you know that it is evidence for creation?

 

[Neostarwcc]

I do not go to scripture for scientific truths. In fact, had it been a choice, I would have picked nominal Christian, leaning toward non-religious.


No, not really, which is why I consider it a ministry.
Faith is not evidence.

How about you pick some of that pro-creation evidence from creation.com and present it here and explain why you know that it is evidence for creation?

Another question, Do you believe the stories about Jesus stated in the NT? If yes, then why do you dismiss the rest of the Bible as evidence? Because if part of the Bible is true, than all of it is. If no, why are you a Christian? Because, the stories about Jesus are true. A minimum to Christianity is to at least believe in Jesus's words and to have faith in him. As the God who made the Heavens and the Earth he obviously believes in Creationism and not Evolution.

Faith is so evidence. To state that it isn't is moronic. Sorry.

I won't post evidence for the same reason you and a majority of people here won't click on the link and check it out for yourselves. I'm lazy. Plus, I think that people should do their own research before calling someone else basically, an idiot. I posted plenty of evidence for creationism you're just too blind to want to see.

 

[Jimmy D]

Faith is so evidence.

* your particular brand faith.

 

[tas8831]

Faith is so evidence. To state that it isn't is moronic. Sorry.

OK, so I have Faith in Evolution, and that is evidence for evolution.

That DOES sound moronic...

I won't post evidence for the same reason you and a majority of people here won't click on the link and check it out for yourselves. I'm lazy. Plus, I think that people should do their own research before calling someone else basically, an idiot. I posted plenty of evidence for creationism you're just too blind to want to see.

You posted a link to a website.

I asked you to provide and explain some evidence. I suspect that is why you are now acting indignant and signaling the end of the discussion.

I am familiar with creation.com. And the ICR. And CRS. I have 6 or 7 creationist books on the shelf behind me right now. I have 4 volumes of CRSQ (the Creation research society's quarterly 'journal'). I have more then 30 creationist sites and blogs bookmarked.

I am not lazy. I have done the legwork. I just get tired of creationists telling me to go to creationist website X as if I have never done so.

I suspect that the real reason that your are declining is because you know you cannot actually explain the claimed evidence they present.

 

[Wakalix]

There is plenty of evidence for creation. For one, just look at the world around us. It had to be created by something. Nothing in this world can exist without there being a God.

How do you know that a creator was necessary? You're just asserting that.

For two, there is plenty of evidence in scripture that supports a young earth and creationism.

And what evidence is there that scripture is a science textbook?

People also knew the world was round long before science knew. How? From Scripture.

That sounds highly suspect.

I know many people don't see scripture as valid evidence. But, it can be an excellent tool for learning the truth.

How do you know that?

 

[Neostarwcc]

How do you know that a creator was necessary? You're just asserting that.

And what evidence is there that scripture is a science textbook?

That sounds highly suspect.

How do you know that?

Hello Wakalix. A creator is necessary because there is no other way that the universe can possibly exist. Think about it, the universe is so vast and creation is so unbelievable that there HAS to be a creator somehow. As an atheist I didn't believe it either like you don't but, it's the truth.

What evidence is there that scripture can be taken as a science text book? You mean besides faith? Well for one the Bible has predicted things since before Christ came to the earth. Like I said, it proved the world was round before Christopher Columbus proved it. It also proved in Genesis 3:15 that both men and women possess the seed of life (Sperm and the Egg). This wasn't discovered by science until the 17th century. These are just some of the things the Bible has proven. For a semi complete list of the scientific evidence for the Bible you can go here:

King James Bible


Does it sound highly suspect? Isaiah 40:22 says:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

The book of Isaiah was written around 700 BC. Long before we knew the world was round. Because science didn't prove that the world was round until Christopher Columbus proved it was back in the 15th century.

 

[Speedwell]

Hello Wakalix. A creator is necessary because there is no other way that the universe can possibly exist. Think about it, the universe is so vast and creation is so unbelievable that there HAS to be a creator somehow. As an atheist I didn't believe it either like you don't but, it's the truth.

What evidence is there that scripture can be taken as a science text book? You mean besides faith? Well for one the Bible has predicted things since before Christ came to the earth. Like I said, it proved the world was round before Christopher Columbus proved it. It also proved in Genesis 3:15 that both men and women possess the seed of life (Sperm and the Egg). This wasn't discovered by science until the 17th century. These are just some of the things the Bible has proven. For a semi complete list of the scientific evidence for the Bible you can go here:

King James Bible


Does it sound highly suspect? Isaiah 40:22 says:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

The book of Isaiah was written around 700 BC. Long before we knew the world was round. Because science didn't prove that the world was round until Christopher Columbus proved it was back in the 15th century.

Christopher Columbus did not "prove" anything of the kind. Educated persons have known that the Earth is round since at least the 6th century BC. The circumference of the Earth was calculated to a reasonable degree of accuracy by the Greek philosopher Eratosthenese in 240 BC. What Columbus did was to insist on performing the calculation for himself with, in the event, considerable error, which is why he thought he was in Japan when he reached the Bahamas. Nor is Isaiah 40:22 an unequivocal statement of the sphericity of the Earth to begin with. The underlying Hebrew can be translated in a variety of ways (including but not limited to "circle") none of which imply sphericity.

The rest of your "proofs" are equally lame, alas, and no credit to the cause of Christianity.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Christopher Columbus did not "prove" anything of the kind. Educated persons have known that the Earth is round since at least the 6th century BC. The circumference of the Earth was calculated to a reasonable degree of accuracy by the Greek philosopher Eratosthenese in 240 BC. What Columbus did was to insist on performing the calculation for himself with, in the event, considerable error, which is why he thought he was in Japan when he reached the Bahamas. Nor is Isaiah 40:22 an unequivocal statement of the sphericity of the Earth to begin with. The underlying Hebrew can be translated in a variety of ways (including but not limited to "circle") none of which imply sphericity.

The rest of your "proofs" are equally lame, alas, and no credit to the cause of Christianity.

Let's say for the sake of argument it's true that science proved the world is round in the 6th century BC which, I highly doubt is true. It still was predicted in Isaiah BEFORE then.

 

[Speedwell]

Let's say for the sake of argument it's true that science proved the world is round in the 6th century BC which, I highly doubt is true. It still was predicted in Isaiah BEFORE then.

That might be an interesting argument if Isaiah had actually stated that the Earth is a sphere.

 

[Neostarwcc]

That might be an interesting argument if Isaiah had actually stated that the Earth is a sphere.

What are you talking about? He did. I don't speak or understand Hebrew But, Across all English Bible translations it says that the world is round. Don't you think the Hebrew scholars would have picked up on Isaiah not saying the world was round?

 

[AV1611VET]

That might be an interesting argument if Isaiah had actually stated that the Earth is a sphere.

Isaiah 40:22a It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,

You never heard of the Arctic Circle?

 

[Wakalix]

Hello Wakalix. A creator is necessary because there is no other way that the universe can possibly exist.

You're just restating your conclusion. That's not reasoning, that's begging the question.

Think about it, the universe is so vast and creation is so unbelievable that there HAS to be a creator somehow.

The larger something is, the harder it is for it to exist on its own? What poppycock. And just because something is awe-inspiring does not mean Goddidit.

As an atheist I didn't believe it either like you don't but, it's the truth.

Arrow-to-the-knee appeal. How mundane.

What evidence is there that scripture can be taken as a science text book? You mean besides faith?

Considering that "I believe this" is not a justification for your belief in it, yes.

dWell for one the Bible has predicted things since before Christ came to the earth. Like I said, it proved the world was round before Christopher Columbus proved it. It also proved in Genesis 3:15 that both men and women possess the seed of life (Sperm and the Egg). This wasn't discovered by science until the 17th century. These are just some of the things the Bible has proven. For a semi complete list of the scientific evidence for the Bible you can go here:

King James Bible


Does it sound highly suspect? Isaiah 40:22 says:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

The book of Isaiah was written around 700 BC. Long before we knew the world was round. Because science didn't prove that the world was round until Christopher Columbus proved it was back in the 15th century.

I've refuted this before: "...a vague statement can be interpreted in many different ways - after the fact, it may seem to match well with our current understanding of reality, but if reality had been different the same vague statement would seem to fit just as well." Furthermore, "...[just] because a mapping exists between a part of the Bible and reality for any given part does not mean that the Bible actually represents reality. To illustrate - if I say that "monkey fish" means all of physics, and then I tell you "monkey fish," am I a physics genius?"