Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

Brightmoon · Apr 12, 2018

The conclusion of a YEC Universe is laughably horribly wrong . There’s no evidence for it . There’s also evidence against it and if the only evidence you have is an old book that had been demonstrably and spectacularly wrong before( Galileo) well , the only thing I can say is that you need better evidence than that

xianghua · Apr 12, 2018

Brightmoon said:
The conclusion of a YEC Universe is laughably horribly wrong . There’s no evidence for it . There’s also evidence against it and if the only evidence you have is an old book that had been demonstrably and spectacularly wrong before( Galileo) well , the only thing I can say is that you need better evidence than that

who said we have no evidence for a young earth? for instance: (from my other thread) we have empirical evidence that speciation may take about less then 100 years:

Rapid Evolution Changes Species in Real Time | DiscoverMagazine.com

Watching new species evolve in real time

so lets assume a tipical speciation event= 100 years.

one of the largest family on earth is the curculionidae which contain almost 100,000 species. so if we start with 2 species then after about one generation of a speciation event (100 years) we will get 4 different species. and after another generation of speciation we will get 8 and so on. so we only need about less then 20 generation of speciation to get more then 100,000 different species (2^20) . or about 2000 years.

we also have evidence for a suppose 15-20 my old DNA. when science show us that a DNA cant survive so long time.

tas8831 · Apr 12, 2018

xianghua said:
who said we have no evidence for a young earth? for instance: (from my other thread) we have empirical evidence that speciation may take about less then 100 years:

Rapid Evolution Changes Species in Real Time | DiscoverMagazine.com

Watching new species evolve in real time

so lets assume a tipical speciation event= 100 years.

one of the largest family on earth is the curculionidae which contain almost 100,000 species. so if we start with 2 species then after about one generation of a speciation event (100 years) we will get 4 different species. and after another generation of speciation we will get 8 and so on. so we only need about less then 20 generation of speciation to get more then 100,000 different species (2^20) . or about 2000 years.

we also have evidence for a suppose 15-20 my old DNA. when science show us that a DNA cant survive so long time.

Wow, so on top of all of your other crazy beliefs, you think speciation events just happen continually, one after another...

Speedwell · Apr 12, 2018

jesus316 said:
What good is it to provide good sound arguments when the conclusions are always ignored out of hand? Anyway, here are two:

Argument #1 for young earth creationism: The Bible is provably the inerrant word of God.

So prove it.

The Bible clearly and unambiguously teaches young earth creationism.

If it is unambiguous, why do only a minority of Christians and other people of the book believe it?

Argument #2 for young earth creationism:

This argument is based on failed logic. Falsifying the theory of evolution does not prove creationism of any kind, YE or otherwise. It only disproves the theory of evolution.

Speedwell · Apr 12, 2018

xianghua said:
who said we have no evidence for a young earth? for instance: (from my other thread) we have empirical evidence that speciation may take about less then 100 years:

Rapid Evolution Changes Species in Real Time | DiscoverMagazine.com

Watching new species evolve in real time

so lets assume a tipical speciation event= 100 years.

one of the largest family on earth is the curculionidae which contain almost 100,000 species. so if we start with 2 species then after about one generation of a speciation event (100 years) we will get 4 different species. and after another generation of speciation we will get 8 and so on. so we only need about less then 20 generation of speciation to get more then 100,000 different species (2^20) . or about 2000 years.

we also have evidence for a suppose 15-20 my old DNA. when science show us that a DNA cant survive so long time.

It looks like you are finally outed. You're a YEC. You are not really arguing for the existence of God or a "designer," you are pushing a shallow and theologically inadequate interpretation of the Bible, just like all the other creationists.

Paul of Eugene OR · Apr 12, 2018

jesus316 said:
What good is it to provide good sound arguments when the conclusions are always ignored out of hand? Anyway, here are two:

Argument #1 for young earth creationism (notice the word "evolution" doesn't appear):

The Bible is provably the inerrant word of God.

The Bible clearly and unambiguously teaches young earth creationism.

Therefore, young earth creationism is true.

Sorry, that argument died when all the clergy opposed the rotation of the earth as the cause of day and night, asserting scripture proved the earth does not move.

Argument #2 for young earth creationism:

Evolution claims via long time periods with its mutations and gene copying errors.

I am yet to find any evidence that the long time periods are sufficient for such complex biological systems to evolve. The probability of such a thing occurring is zero and evolutionists can't say otherwise.

Sorry, the argument from inability of evolutionists to say otherwise is clearly false. They do say otherwise.

And as for your not finding evidence, some of us suspect you aren't fairly evaluating the evidence.

xianghua · Apr 13, 2018

tas8831 said:
Wow, so on top of all of your other crazy beliefs, you think speciation events just happen continually, one after another...

speciation actually has an average rate. so why not?

xianghua · Apr 13, 2018

Speedwell said:
It looks like you are finally outed. You're a YEC. You are not really arguing for the existence of God or a "designer," you are pushing a shallow and theologically inadequate interpretation of the Bible, just like all the other creationists.

im not a YEC, i just dont know what is the real age of the earth. i have no problem with a young earth or an old earth and i think that we have evidence for both claims.

DogmaHunter · Apr 13, 2018

xianghua said:
im not a YEC, i just dont know what is the real age of the earth.

YOU clearly don't know, we agree there.
Others, do know.

i have no problem with a young earth

That's not really surprising.

or an old earth and i think that we have evidence for both claims.

lol!

Neostarwcc · Apr 13, 2018

xianghua said:
im not a YEC, i just dont know what is the real age of the earth. i have no problem with a young earth or an old earth and i think that we have evidence for both claims.

I'm curious but what evidences are there for an Old Earth? Besides a couple of scientists who say that the Earth is billions of years old But, they can't quite prove it. Yet, people go around stating that it's fact. It's not, a fact is something 100% proven by science. Just like the theory of Evolution scientists say that they can't prove it. In fact, It's been proven by science recently that we were not evolved from apes and Evolutionary scientists currently do not know what we evolved from. It's just a theory.

Just like there is no 100% way to prove that Creationism is true there is no way to prove that Evolution is true either. Both are theories as to what the beginning of life could possibly be. Obviously as a Christian I believe in Creationism but I do admit that it has no way of being 100% proven. A lot of a Christians belief is about faith. We believe it to be fact because the Bible says so and the Bible hasn't been wrong yet.

Speedwell · Apr 13, 2018

xianghua said:
im not a YEC, i just dont know what is the real age of the earth. i have no problem with a young earth or an old earth and i think that we have evidence for both claims.

My point still stands. I put it to you that you are a fraud. Your anti-evolutionary arguments are not motivated by a love of pure science as you would like to have us believe, but because of your interpretation of the Bible.

tas8831 · Apr 13, 2018

xianghua said:
speciation actually has an average rate. so why not?

But robot penguins negate the need for a creator!

Divide · Apr 14, 2018

Speedwell said:
So prove it.

He's right. Why ask for proof when you know you wouldn't believe in staples even if someone stapled something to your forehead?

The Bible is self validating. There's so many prophecies in it that have come to pass that it's sorta obvious...but not to you guys.

Divide · Apr 14, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Marriage is just a piece of paper. It means nothing. What matters is how you treat one another, how you behave.

People who say things like you just said, don't know what love actually is, imo.

Wow, he wants to step out back because I implied he might not honor his marriage as much as he could or should. It is NOT about the piece of paper. It is about the marriage within your two hearts.

...and there's a level of integrity and honor above where you are. That's all. One that says, yes I give you my heart and my name, my all. You're holding back on a woman who gave her all.

I may not know you, but I know women. And I know Covenant, and I know honor. And I know that there's a right way to do things. And I know that you miss the mark with this. I don't say that to try to be insulting, but if it stings, maybe you want to ask yourself if this is true?

Jimmy D · Apr 14, 2018

Neostarwcc said:
I'm curious but what evidences are there for an Old Earth? Besides a couple of scientists who say that the Earth is billions of years old But, they can't quite prove it. Yet, people go around stating that it's fact. It's not, a fact is something 100% proven by science. Just like the theory of Evolution scientists say that they can't prove it. In fact, It's been proven by science recently that we were not evolved from apes and Evolutionary scientists currently do not know what we evolved from. It's just a theory.

Just like there is no 100% way to prove that Creationism is true there is no way to prove that Evolution is true either. Both are theories as to what the beginning of life could possibly be. Obviously as a Christian I believe in Creationism but I do admit that it has no way of being 100% proven. A lot of a Christians belief is about faith. We believe it to be fact because the Bible says so and the Bible hasn't been wrong yet.

But, but...... ah, never mind, it’s Saturday and the sun is shining.

Ophiolite · Apr 14, 2018

Jimmy D said:
But, but...... ah, never mind, it’s Saturday and the sun is shining.

And yet some people - no names, no pack drill - seems to be in eternal darkness.

I was amused that many thousands of geologists, thousands more geochemists, further thousands of astronomers, planetologists and geochronologists were characterised as "a couple of scientists". Quite a couple! That thought process may account for the "seven days of creation". Shrink wrapped logic.

xianghua · Apr 14, 2018

are you saying that we have no evidence for a young earth?

xianghua · Apr 14, 2018

Neostarwcc said:
Obviously as a Christian I believe in Creationism but I do admit that it has no way of being 100% proven

im not sure about that. we actually do have scientific evidence for the existence of god, as you can see here: the self replicating watch argument

as for the age of the earth i agree that its base on faith rather then a fact. in the past science conclude that the age of the earth was about 50-100 my. now it changed to about 4.5 by. about 5000% mystake!

xianghua · Apr 14, 2018

Speedwell said:
My point still stands. I put it to you that you are a fraud. Your anti-evolutionary arguments are not motivated by a love of pure science as you would like to have us believe, but because of your interpretation of the Bible.

realy? are you saying that we have no scientific evidence for a young earth?

xianghua · Apr 14, 2018

Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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