Why Mormons aren't christians.

[NOTW]

Then what is the biblical idea of a Christian and why arent they one?

Post #140

 

[Lignoba]

Post #140

Ok, what biblical evidence did you provide me because I see none. They do not practice polygamy, and they believe in the trinity. From what I see, mainstream christians believe in the trinity, but claim the mormon trinity is wrong because... well.. I really dont know why. Does it really matter if the mormons are wrong and you are right? Maybe they are right... maybe neither of you are right. What good does it do to argue it? This is why we have problems in the world because people bicker about religion too much.

 

[NOTW]

Ok, what biblical evidence did you provide me because I see none. They do not practice polygamy, and they believe in the trinity. From what I see, mainstream christians believe in the trinity, but claim the mormon trinity is wrong because... well.. I really dont know why. Does it really matter if the mormons are wrong and you are right? Maybe they are right... maybe neither of you are right. What good does it do to argue it? This is why we have problems in the world because people bicker about religion too much.

Then what is the point of arguing about anything at all?
Why are you arguing about it yourself?
If you don't see the point of arguing at all, then I believe you're wasting valuable time around these forums, especially around ones dealing with religion.
After all, religion does touch the topic of eternal life, which (if was true) a lot of people should be conscerned about.

So, isn't eternity worth arguing?

 

[Cassiopeia]

I find this humorous, if you believe that Jesus is God and or Christ but do not believe in the man made Nicene Creed, then you are not Christian?

I completely agree...the Nicene Creed is not what makes someone christian. It is just this boards interpretation. As an ex-mormon and while I was mormon I didn't mind the label of unorthodox as I knew it was different than the mainstreamers. I don't like people calling Mormons non-christians but I will accept that their views are unorthodox according to the board however much I disagree with it. Did that make sense?

 

[Cassiopeia]

Not that I personally regard the Nicene Creed as divinely inspired, but what makes you think it is man-made? Your very statement suggests that you are working under the assumption that certain writings are divinely inspired, while others are the works of men. Please tell me which writings are of divine origin, as per your assumptions.

Ummm because men made the creed??? Just like MEN wrote the bible. Inspired or not..man is falible and so are his writings and so are the interpretations of man.

I am a writer and I have been inspired by many things....some I consider divine. I wouldn't expect you to see them that way though.
So it is hard to say which are inspired and set a standard that all will agree upon.

Casi

 

[peepnklown]

Not that I personally regard the Nicene Creed as divinely inspired, but what makes you think it is man-made?

Of course, when all else fails, it was magically inspired. The same thing can be said about the Book of Mormon, but someone has to stop the circle, eh? A council of men formulated the Creed; unless you believe magical beings did it (did they write the Greek text also).

Mormonism contains ideologies a lot different than what the "general ideas" the other Christian sects have.

So, which sect of Christians is right? Are Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, and Seventh - day Adventist all non-Christian according to what the Catholic Church ideologies? I actually would like to see a verse (Jesus) that says a man cannot have multiple wives. If you would like, I would also like to discuss Christianity’s divinity of three Gods.

Did that make sense?

Yup! Christianity has over 100 denominations and everyone is trying to create their own snobby social club.

 

[MQTA]

100? 34,000 and counting, last I heard

 

[Lignoba]

Then what is the point of arguing about anything at all?
Why are you arguing about it yourself?
If you don't see the point of arguing at all, then I believe you're wasting valuable time around these forums, especially around ones dealing with religion.
After all, religion does touch the topic of eternal life, which (if was true) a lot of people should be conscerned about.

So, isn't eternity worth arguing?

I am on my own Crusade to eliminate ignorance.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Yup! Christianity has over 100 denominations and everyone is trying to create their own snobby social club.

Oh I heard THAT! It is all about vaulting one's self above the rest to feel superior. Kinda like My dog is better than your dog only on this forum we get to see, My Jesus is better than your Jesus which translate to, my view of Jesus is right and your are wrong and therefore not a christian.

What a shock a few people have coming when they get to the pearly gates and find out how wrong they were.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I am on my own Crusade to eliminate ignorance.

Good for you! I will join that crusade

 

[BourbonFromHeaven]

.... and they believe in the trinity. From what I see, mainstream christians believe in the trinity, but claim the mormon trinity is wrong because... well.. I really dont know why....

To be fair, Christians see their "Trinity" as an actual one god. Mormons believe their Trinity to be three seprate gods with one purpose.

I have spoken with, at some length, with Mormon apologists on the issue of their "Henotheism". They will pull sentence fragments from Hebrew texts to support this, and offer examples of similiar beliefs held by Ancient Israel to also back this up.

I think the distinction is clear and has to be made.

 

[arunma]

Of course, when all else fails, it was magically inspired. The same thing can be said about the Book of Mormon, but someone has to stop the circle, eh? A council of men formulated the Creed; unless you believe magical beings did it (did they write the Greek text also).

We say precisely the same thing about the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, so I'm curious as to why you contest only the inspiration of the Nicene Creed. Now, keep in mind that I do not regard the Creed as inspired. However, your statements suggest that you accept (or at least tolerate) certain documents as inspired, but not others. I would like you to divulge the list to me.

 

[Cassiopeia]

To be fair, Christians see their "Trinity" as an actual one god. Mormons believe their Trinity to be three seprate gods with one purpose.

I have spoken with, at some length, with Mormon apologists on the issue of their "Henotheism". They will pull sentence fragments from Hebrew texts to support this, and offer examples of similiar beliefs held by Ancient Israel to also back this up.

I think the distinction is clear and has to be made.

As a Latter-day Saint I always understood the trinity to be made up of three distinct personages with one purpose...nothing was said to call them all Gods.

It is God the Eternal Father, His son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Lignoba]

That is how I thoght it should be, since when is Jesus Christ God? and if he is, arent we breaking a commandment by showing pictures of him and making statues of his crucifixion?

 

[peepnklown]

Kind of like my dog is better than your dog only on this forum we get to see, My Jesus is better than your Jesus who translate to, my view of Jesus is right and you are wrong and therefore not a Christian.

I will join the crusade, but only if I get a nifty badge.

To be fair, Christians see their "Trinity" as an actual one god. Mormons believe their Trinity to be three separate gods with one purpose.

Odd, I have seen many Christians from this forum define it as three separate personalities with one essence, so I chalk it up to semantics.

We say precisely the same thing about the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, so I'm curious as to why you contest only the inspiration of the Nicene Creed.

I only contest the Nicene Creed as being inspired if used as a “proof.”

However, your statements suggest that you accept (or at least tolerate) certain documents as inspired, but not others. I would like you to divulge the list to me.

None. I only contest the “inspired” bit if used as a “proof.”

 

[Rae]

Part of what it is to be Christian is to follow the 10 Commandments. Commandment #1 is a rejection of all other gods.
--1. The Ten Commandments were intended only for the Jews, not for the Christians who came after them.

2. Actually, according to commandment #1, you only need not to worship other Gods as much as you do YHVH, if you read the words of the commandment. Ye shall have no Gods BEFORE ME. But even so, if a Christian happens to believe there ARE other Gods out there, that isn't forbidden by this commandment either...as long as s/he doesn't worship those other Gods. So yes, a Christian could be a polytheist (i.e. believe there are other Gods out there than YHVH/Jesus) as long as s/he didn't hold those other Gods above YHVH/Jesus.

 

[Lignoba]

Part of what it is to be Christian is to follow the 10 Commandments. Commandment #1 is a rejection of all other gods.
--1. The Ten Commandments were intended only for the Jews, not for the Christians who came after them.

2. Actually, according to commandment #1, you only need not to worship other Gods as much as you do YHVH, if you read the words of the commandment. Ye shall have no Gods BEFORE ME. But even so, if a Christian happens to believe there ARE other Gods out there, that isn't forbidden by this commandment either...as long as s/he doesn't worship those other Gods. So yes, a Christian could be a polytheist (i.e. believe there are other Gods out there than YHVH/Jesus) as long as s/he didn't hold those other Gods above YHVH/Jesus.

How about the second commandment "T[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]hou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."? Isnt making pictures of him against this commandment?
[/font]

 

[Rae]

How about the second commandment "T[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]hou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."? Isnt making pictures of him against this commandment?[/font]

How is this connected to anything I've said? I don't get it. I didn't say anything about making pictures of anybody or anything. I said that polytheism is not contradicted by the first commandment.

 

[arunma]

Part of what it is to be Christian is to follow the 10 Commandments. Commandment #1 is a rejection of all other gods.
--1. The Ten Commandments were intended only for the Jews, not for the Christians who came after them.

2. Actually, according to commandment #1, you only need not to worship other Gods as much as you do YHVH, if you read the words of the commandment. Ye shall have no Gods BEFORE ME. But even so, if a Christian happens to believe there ARE other Gods out there, that isn't forbidden by this commandment either...as long as s/he doesn't worship those other Gods. So yes, a Christian could be a polytheist (i.e. believe there are other Gods out there than YHVH/Jesus) as long as s/he didn't hold those other Gods above YHVH/Jesus.

If you base your entire argument on one word, then please reformulate your argument after reading the footnotes.

You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

a. Exodus 20:3 Or besides
(Exodus 20:3, NIV)

You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
a. Exodus 20:3 Or besides
(Exodus 20:3, ESV)

You shall have no other gods [a]before Me.
a. Exodus 20:3 Or besides Me
(Exodus 20:3, NASB)

​

Besides your flawed argument, I take issue with the fact that once again you are eager to write Christian doctrine for us. You wish to tell us that we must regard Mormons as fellow Christians, and now you tell us that we must regard polytheists as fellow Christians. Why are you so interested in writing doctrine for a religion in which you do not believe (not that you have such authority in the first place)?

 

[Rae]

I take issue with the fact that once again you are eager to write Christian doctrine for us.

I don't care that you take issue with it. I'm going to give my opinions here and everywhere else that isn't segregated to Nicene Creed believers only. If you hate it so much, ignore my posts. I'm certainly going to ignore any further posts of yours like this one. Bye.