A
Apex
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peepnklown said:
Why do I find that Athiests get our basic beliefs right more then mainstream christians here...
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peepnklown said:
LDS (Mormons) accepts Jesus Christ as their leader, their king, their savior. They accept his divinity, his life, and his atonement.
No problem.newyorksaint said:Thank you for saying the truth.
It might be because we do not have blinders on. LDS core doctrine about Jesus has been posted numerous times yet Christians (who believe Mormons are not Christians) dodge and continue to assault ideologies and interpretation like they personally have the ONLY answer.Apex said:Why do I find that Atheists get our basic beliefs right more then mainstream Christians here...
Ohh..... She got ya Swart.Casiopeia said:AHEM! Dear...my forum is down...and it is on a linux server
Orontes said:This is a false dichotomy.
So, you have never seen a discussion where both sides (educated) could not see the issue of semantics?
The debates I am reffering to, are between both Christian and Mormon scholars. I would think, these people could see an issue of semantics.
Casiopeia said:excuse me? Who is we? You got a mouse in your pocket? Because YOU and I have not discussed anything about me. You do not know my past or my present and the fact I run an online store that caters to many different spiritual paths does not limit me from being Christian.
I would appreciate it if you would edit your post and remove the link to my store as I believe posting it will violate forum rules.
I am extremely sensitive on being labeled. I am me...and I don't like the boxes people try to put others in. Thank you for editting your post...I don't want either of us to be in breach of forum policy.BourbonFromHeaven said:Well, I could have sworn you and had shared some comments about your spiritual history, back when you had a non-denomnational icon. I guess I was really wrong.
By the by, I've edited the whole post. I apologize for giving you some a grave offense.
bye.
Me: This is a false dichotomy.
BourbonFromHeaven said:Here is the statement; "So, you have never seen a discussion where both sides (educated) could not see the issue of semantics?"
and here is the reasponse:
"The debates I am reffering to, are between both Christian and Mormon scholars. I would think, these people could see an issue of semantics"
Please explain to me, the diversion I was trying to create, and from what subject?
Casiopeia said:AHEM! Dear...my forum is down...and it is on a linux server
Apex said:Ohh..... She got ya Swart.
From the 1908 RLDS book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 7:12 But behold, thus saith the Lord God: When the day cometh that they shall believe in me, that I am Christ, then have I covenanted with their fathers, that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon the earth, unto the lands of their inheritance.
2 Nephi 8:13 For if there be no Christ, there be no God; and if there be no God, we are not, for there could have been no creation.
2 Nephi 8:14 But there is a God, and he is Christ; and he cometh in the fullness of his own time.
2 Nephi 11:26 And after they have been scattered, and the Lord God hath scourged them by other nations, for the space of many generations, yea, even down from generation to generation until they shall be persuaded to believe in Christ, the Son of God, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind;
2 Nephi 11:36 And according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 Nephi 11:39 Yea, behold, I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven, save it be this Jesus Christ of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved.
2 Nephi 11:43 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God;
2 Nephi 11:78 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also, that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God; and that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost;
--So when the First Commandment says, "you shall have no Gods before me," it doesn't really refer to Gods other than YHWH? Funny, sounds like it does to me.The Bible says that there is only one God and no other
Lets actually look at the correct translation from the Hebrew Bible; Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that it is I! I am the One, and there is no god like Me! I cause death and grant life. I strike, but I heal, and no one can rescue from My Hand!SwordOfGod said:DEUTERONOMY 32:39
Yet, Jesus is (so-called) quoted separating himself from God, as a distinct being several times. For example: John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. So, Mormons have a case.SwordOfGod said:The Bible says that there is only one God and no other, this in itself completely separates the Mormon Church from the Christian Church.
ANNND ..what about when he was baptised by John the Baptist? Jesus was in the water...and there was a voice in the heavens, saying, "this is my son in whom I am well please." and the holy ghost descended as a dove. So what are we to derive from this? That he was a magician? Schizophrenic ? or three distinct beings? The Mormons most certainly DO have a case.peepnklown said:Yet, Jesus is (so-called) quoted separating himself from God, as a distinct being several times. For example: John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. So, Mormons have a case.
Now tell me, do you follow Jesus or the Council of Nicaea?
Who wrote this? Where were they observing this to know it happened like this? Maybe it's pure evangelical hearsay?Casiopeia said:ANNND ..what about when he was baptised by John the Baptist? Jesus was in the water...and there was a voice in the heavens, saying, "this is my son in whom I am well please." and the holy ghost descended as a dove. So what are we to derive from this? That he was a magician? Schizophrenic ? or three distinct beings? The Mormons most certainly DO have a case.
Could you be a bit more specific in what you are asking ?MQTA said:Who wrote this? Where were they observing this to know it happened like this? Maybe it's pure evangelical hearsay?
ANNND ..what about when he was baptised by John the Baptist? Jesus was in the water...and there was a voice in the heavens, saying, "this is my son in whom I am well please." and the holy ghost descended as a dove. So what are we to derive from this? That he was a magician? Schizophrenic ? or three distinct beings? The Mormons most certainly DO have a case.
Who wrote this? Where were they observing this to know it happened like this? Maybe it's pure evangelical hearsay?
SwordOfGod said:And now we come once again to trinity doctrine which states that God is one, and that God is three persons. That the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one God. This plurity is evidenced throughout the Bible and is fully understood in the New Testament. Let me explain, in Romans we are told to look to understand God in His creation, first you must understand that WE as the images of God are triune beings like God...
1 Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
When God created the universe, man was created in His image, this was probably not meant to mean a physical image. Instead consider for a second that God is indeed a Triune being, we therefore, being the images of God, are also triune. As the passages above show(If you believe the bible is the infallible word of God), we are indeed triune being body, soul and spirit. After the fall of man the bible makes it clear that every human owed a physical death for our sins, and our lifespan decreased from 1000 to the limit of about 120 years. For many thousands of years God told the Isrealites to sacrifice animals to make clean themselves of their sins. In Isaiah we find however that not even a human's death can make up for any of our sins, we find throughout the old testament instead verses that state the sacrifices were only symbolic. That an Elect One, a Lamb of God had been prepared to die for our sins(Google messianic prophecies), and would make clean anyone who believed in Him, before Him and after. Continuing on the idea that God is a triune God(see first post), we can use reasoning to say that if the Father is a spirit-physical being with an image(throughout Ezekial and Isaiah),the Son is the physical expression of God(First couple of chapters of John), the Holy Spirit is completely without image, and that the body is the physical expression of man, that the soul is a spirit-physical being with an image(Revelation), and that the human spirit is without image, than we can conclude that the body is the image of the Son.I don't know if any of that made sense, however the point is that there are parallels between the trinity of man and the trinity of God, and that Jesus Christ is the body of God. If this is so, then when Jesus died on the cross, the Body of God died on the cross, therefore God died in the same way that we have to(physically not spiritually), he was the ultimate sacrifice and he carried all of our sins with him to Hell (or somewhere else, there is much debate) for three days before he was resurrected. If there is only one God as the bible proved in my first post, and it is impossible for humans to be made clean by anything less then God, then the the bible clearly states that the mormon way is not the way to salvation. Also in answer to Peepnklown's statement, God is triune and the biblical verses you pointed out only reinforce this. For one, just because God is trune does not neccasarily mean that all three persons are always together, indeed the Father (and at the second, Christ) spends His time in the temple of Heaven, while the Holy Spirit is on Earth. Also when Jesus is asked about when His second coming would come, he says that neither He nor the Holy Spirit knew, but only the Father. And yet again I point out that the Bible clearly states that there is only one God(see first post). Also, as for the banner of christianity, I absolutely agree that no one(except Jesus) is perfect or for that matter even good at being Christian, but this only reinforces the need for understanding the bible, especially the parts about salvation, so we can make ourselves clean again from our nack at being bad at christianity.
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