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Why McConnell Dumped Trump

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Michael, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But Belknap was eventually acquitted, with the Senate failing to muster the two-thirds vote needed to convict. (A significant number of senators believed the Senate lacked jurisdiction to convict him because he no longer held office.)
    Meet the other American who was impeached and tried after leaving office

    And the same thing will happen this time. The dems are courting disaster for themselves by pushing this agenda. If Trump violated the law then as a private citizen there is nothing to prevent him being charged in federal court.....except the knowledge that any such charge would not pass muster. That's why the dems are pushing this; simply trying to get their pound of flesh.
     
  2. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Technically they may not be able to stop him from starting up a new political party, and speaking on it's behalf and financially supporting it, but they can preclude him from personally running on the ticket, or holding public office.

    If Trump runs again as a Republican or any other party, Trump will simply assure and secure another victory for Democrats and he will cause the GOP to lose even more state and federal seats in the various houses and senates.

    In addition to losing control of the House, the Senate and the Whitehouse, I believe that the Republicans have also lost something like 400 state and federal seats over the past four years thanks to Trump. He's been destroying the GOP since he was elected President. The thing about Trump is that he divides his own party and he unites the Democrats against him. That's a really bad combo for the GOP. I've voted for several GOP candidates in the past, including at least one Presidential candidate (Reagan), but I'd never vote for Trump.

    I believe that it would be in the GOP's best interest to simply cut their losses now, convict him of his crimes, and be done with him.
     
  3. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    The easiest way to keep Trump form holding public office its to run a candidate against him that more people would vote for. I don't see as wasting time on an impeachment trial to not remove anyone from office and further enflame the supporters of Trump and give them what they would see as further evidence that he and they are being specifically and unfairly targeted for more harsh treatment than others is a worth while endeavor. When someone is down, kicking them is usually seen by reasonable people as a bit over the top.
     
  4. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Well, of course, the main reason most people think criminal actions should result in trials and possibly prison or other outcomes where they suffer consequences, is the widespread idea that this could help prevent the perpetrator from continuing to commit new crimes.
     
  5. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    But he was put on trial in the Senate, so there is a historical precedent for Senate trials after someone leaves office.

    I suspect that will be the most common "excuse" used by his supporters in this trial too.

    That's possible of course, but I'll wait to see what evidence is presented in the trial before I assume that will happen. Trump has made a lot of enemies even in his own party, and if they convict him, they really have nothing to fear from him anymore. On the other hand, if they *don't* convict him and preclude him from running again, he's going to continue to hurt the GOP for years, and maybe decades to come.

    I certainly don't feel that way. I'm not after even an ounce of flesh, I just want to see justice in terms of his ability, or inability to ever run again. I'm sure the courts are going to go after Trump now for *a lot* of things, including campaign election fraud since he remains an unindicted co-conspirator in a case that his own personal lawyer already went to jail for. I also suspect that Trump has got some tax problems with the state of New York. I'm not after revenge or any sort of "pound of flesh". I just want justice. No one should be above the law. I also hope that Trump is charged in federal court for that same reason.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  6. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    It would also deter any future President from committing the same crimes.
     
  7. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    We aren't talking about a criminal trial or prison here if Trump loses. If he is retroactively remocved by impeachment and conviction he is supposedly barred from government, though I don't even know if that sentence would stand up in a real court or not. It is something I suspect would be the case whether or not this show trial ends in a show conviction.
     
  8. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    This seems very meaningful:

    "...further enflame the supporters of Trump and give them what they would see as further evidence that he and they are being specifically and unfairly targeted for more harsh treatment than others is a worth while endeavor. When someone is down, kicking them .."

    It's so striking!

    You seem to be saying that at least some (millions?) of Trump voters see Trump as being a part of their own self/being?


     
  9. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Having a precedent for a stupid idea doesn't make it a wise idea.
     
  10. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Democrats already did that and we still ended up with a very public insurrection attempt which included Trump leaning on state officials to "find" him votes and change the election results.

    What about "justice"? What about protecting the Republic from a man who did everything he could to try to *illegally* throw at state results? What's the purpose of the impeachment clause if plotting and planning and engaging in an insurrection attempt isn't valid grounds for impeachment?

    I think those "reasonable" people should wait and see what evidence is presented in the Senate trial and *then* make up their minds. He's not being kicked while he's down, he's being "brought to justice" and being held accountable for his crimes against our Republic.
     
  11. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    I don't think it's wise to allow Trump to run for office again. He's far too narcissistic to simply bow out of politics and go quietly into the night. I don't think it's wise to hold 800+ rioters accountable for their crimes without holding their ringleader accountable as well.
     
  12. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Insurrections should be made of sterner stuff. Like perhaps an armed occupation of an entire neighborhood for weeks and declaring that neighborhood to be an independent entity. Not just a temporary riot. How many temporary riots did we have last year without anyone, that is now calling what happened at the Capitol, calling any of them an insurrection. Hyperbole abounds.
     
  13. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    How else do you explain his continued popularity? They certainly see him as some sort of "hero".
     
  14. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Antifa should of course be charged for their crimes too, but attempting to take over a single neighborhood isn't quite in the same league as trying to take over an entire nation, and attempting to hang a sitting Vice President and members of Congress.

    Not hyperbole at all! For all of Antifa's crimes, they didn't storm the US Capitol with the express intent of overturning the entire government and hanging members of Congress and a sitting VP. I still have no sympathy for Antifa either. They *all* deserve to go to jail.
     
  15. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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  16. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Why do you figure the 14th amendment was added to the constitution, and how do you figure it "throw(s) due process out the window"? That amendment is even specifically mentioned in the article of impeachment.
     
  17. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because that amendment was in place specifically to address former confederate officers and appointed/elected officials from taking seats in the national government not to use it to ban people from holding office because the majority in congress disagrees with their political beliefs or simply does not like them. Congress has no ability to ignore due process. I highly recommend that you study up on these subjects rather than just blindly believe what these people are telling you. They ARE lying to you.
    The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments are the original civil rights acts meant to secure the rights of blacks.
     
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