Why Mary ?

[Root of Jesse]

Actually not.

Gutenberg died in 1468.

Ok. I think the printing press came into common use in the 1500's regardless of when the inventor died.

From Wikipedia: The printing press spread within several decades[of its 1439 invention] to over two hundred cities in a dozen European countries.[5] By 1500, printing presses in operation throughout Western Europe had already produced more than twenty million volumes.[5] In the 16th century, with presses spreading further afield, their output rose tenfold to an estimated 150 to 200 million copies.[5]

I also believe that people needed to learn to read before even a printing press would do any good. Only the scholarly (those in universities) really learned to read. It was reserved for some nobility. That is, before Catholic education.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Not Catholic, but Mary was chosen by God to have Jesus. She deserves recognition.

Also, Catholics don't worship Mary, if that is what you think. They ask her to pray for them, same as you might ask someone to pray for a sick friend.

The idea that Catholics worship Mary is evident in this phrase: "Hail Mary!" If that is not worshipping her, I don't know what it is. Why don't they hail Jesus, who is God?

 

[GodLovesCats]

First of all, she carried Christ more than 9 months, she likely carried him as an infant and at times as a toddler, most likely she taught him to speak and to walk.. she was His mother.
Yet, even still, we are to honor her not for those reasons, "rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

Which is exactly what Mary did and why the scriptures indicate that All generations will call her blessed.

You took the word carried too literally. In that post the word strictly refers to Mary's pregnancy.

 

[prodromos]

The idea that Catholics worship Mary is evident in this phrase: "Hail Mary!" If that is not worshipping her, I don't know what it is. Why don't they hail Jesus, who is God?

So do you believe the archangel Gabriel was worshipping Mary in Luke 1:28?
That's where the text of "Hail Mary" comes from.
Note: I am not Catholic, I am simply pointing out some facts before you make yourself look completely ignorant

 

[GodLovesCats]

Gabriel was talking to Mary in that verse, not idolizing her.

 

[prodromos]

Gabriel was talking to Mary in that verse, not idolizing her.

You said if that was not worshipping her, you didn't know what was. Why is Gabriel saying it not worship but Catholics saying it, is?

 

[Root of Jesse]

The idea that Catholics worship Mary is evident in this phrase: "Hail Mary!" If that is not worshipping her, I don't know what it is. Why don't they hail Jesus, who is God?

Well, I'm very sorry to tell you that these are the words of Angel Gabriel to Mary, in Sacred Scripture. So if you object to someone praying the Bible, I can't imagine what else you might object to someone praying.

 

[GodLovesCats]

My issue is not with what Gabriel said but congregations treating Mary as if she was above her son Jesus.

Let me clarify. Gabriel told Mary she was "highly favored." Highly favored over who else? Obviously every other virgin woman! That's all it is. She was not favored at all over the baby that had just been conceived in her.

 

[prodromos]

Humility and repentance are so hard to come by among anti-Catholics. The Christian response would be to admit that you were wrong and apologise, not try and justify yourself by repeatedly moving the goalposts and pretending to be able to read the hearts of Catholics.

 

[GodLovesCats]

One more thing: Praying to Mary is praying to a mortal with no superpowers. She is not God. The Bible is clear: Pray to God directly.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Humility and repentance are so hard to come by among anti-Catholics. The Christian response would be to admit that you were wrong and apologise, not try and justify yourself by repeatedly moving the goalposts and pretending to be able to read the hearts of Catholics.

I never heard any Protestant say we should not repent and be humble. The difference is you don't need a priest to lislten to your repentence on the phone to be forgiven. Jesus forgave us for all of our sins on the cross, according to Scripture.

 

[FenderTL5]

You took the word carried too literally. In that post the word strictly refers to Mary's pregnancy.

I knew what was meant and my response was quite intentional.
There are some, maybe even some on this forum, who think of the Theotokos as nothing more than a human incubator that God used for nine months and then discarded. When scripture tells us, quite differently, that all generations will call her blessed. Jesus went even further and told us the reason she would be called blessed was not merely because she was His mother but, "rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

 

[prodromos]

One more thing: Praying to Mary is praying to a mortal with no superpowers. She is not God. The Bible is clear: Pray to God directly.

The Bible is clear: pray for one another, ask others to pray for you, after all the prayers of a righteous man are powerful and effective (James 5:16, Proverbs 15:29, 1 Peter 3:12)

 

[johnnywong]

I never heard any Protestant say we should not repent and be humble. The difference is you don't need a priest to lislten to your repentence on the phone to be forgiven. Jesus forgave us for all of our sins on the cross, according to Scripture.

They try to have "second hand " relationship with God.

They dare not to face God directly .

On earth they confess to Priest , in Prayer they pray to the Saints and Mary.

two reasons behind this .

For the Priest and Pope they can get benefits from this second hand relationship as a middle man.

For the others they can remain in the ways they lives and don't need to face God directly ( to keep the sinful lives ).

 

[GodLovesCats]

The Bible is clear: pray for one another, ask others to pray for you, after all the prayers of a righteous man are powerful and effective (James 5:16, Proverbs 15:29, 1 Peter 3:12)

That is completely different. I was talking about Mary being used as an intercessary. Praying for someone through her instead of the Holy Spirit is what I object to.

 

[GodLovesCats]

So Catholics are afraid of revealing themselves to God? That is what Adam and Eve felt. God sees people trying to hide from Him and wants us to talk to Him directly.

 

[Root of Jesse]

My issue is not with what Gabriel said but congregations treating Mary as if she was above her son Jesus.

Let me clarify. Gabriel told Mary she was "highly favored." Highly favored over who else? Obviously every other virgin woman! That's all it is. She was not favored at all over the baby that had just been conceived in her.

Your translation is not the correct one. Full of grace is what the Angel stated. Full of grace means, actually, without sin. But that was a grace she was given. Mary is not above Jesus.

 

[GodLovesCats]

How did Mary avoid sin her entire life, even before Jesus was born?

 

[prodromos]

They try to have "second hand " relationship with God.

They dare not to face God directly .

Absolute rubbish.

On earth they confess to Priest

James 5:16 again,

"Confess your sins to one another"​

This holds us accountable to each other, and knowing that you are going to have to tell your priest what you've done or not done is a great deterrent.

in Prayer they pray to the Saints and Mary.

As well as their close friends and family. I don't know why you capitalised "prayer", it simply means "ask".

For the Priest and Pope they can get benefits from this second hand relationship as a middle man.

Yeah, it's called being held accountable.

For the others they can remain in the ways they lives and don't need to face God directly ( to keep the sinful lives ).

Amazing how you can come to the opposite conclusion to the facts of the matter.

 

[prodromos]

That is completely different. I was talking about Mary being used as an intercessary. Praying for someone through her instead of the Holy Spirit is what I object to.

Anyone can be an intercessor. Christ is the only mediator.