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JesusLovesOurLady

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I thought it had a lot to do with it, is this better.
Matthew chapter 12 verse 50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
Oh okay, that's quite simple really:

And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

-St. Luke 1:38 DR
 
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disciple1

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Oh okay, that's quite simple really:

And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
-St. Luke 1:38 DR
Matthew chapter 12 verse 50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
So does this mean if I do God's will, I'm the mother of God to?
 
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mmksparbud

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And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
-St. Luke 1:38 DR

Blasphemy! Adoration is for God alone!

This reply answers nothing----and we know adoration belongs to God alone--it is however, how Mary is treated--she is not the mother God.
 
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Radagast

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Devin P

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Where in St. Mark 3:34, or all of St. Mark 3 for that matter does it say that Mary thought that Jesus was crazy?

No, Our Lord is simply saying that those who imitate Mary, and say "fiat" to God like she did in St. Luke 1:38, will become brothers and sisters in Christ, sharing the same Mother.
He denied that Mary was His mother, and then gave the title "Mother" to one of the women in the group that believed on Him, and did the will of His Father. So, from this we know that Mary didn't believe on Him, because to do the will of His Father, is to believe on Him.

He wouldn't of ignored her, and kept teaching, and rejected her as His mother unless she wasn't doing what the woman He claimed to be His mother amongst His believing crowd.

Jesus came to prove that God's children and kingdom was spirit, and not blood. Why would His mother and brothers come to get Him, He deny their attempt to get in touch with Him, and then attribute Motherhood, and brotherhood to those not by blood His mother nor His brothers? The only thing that these men and women who weren't related to Him by blood did differently, was that they were around Him, listening to Him, believing on Him. In the verses prior to His mother and brothers trying to bring Him back home, His family sought to seize Him because they said that "He is beside Himself" meaning that they thought He was either crazy, or that they knew He was the savior, but didn't want Him to be put to death like Peter when he said "may it never be so!"

(different translations say friends in Mark 3:21, but the word in the greek isn't really specific enough to know - "Para" insinuates those near to Him, - but the versions that say friends wouldn't make much sense, since later in the chapter it's talking about His family. So to assume that His friends went to seize Him, but never came, yet His family did, and He rejected them tells us it was His family, and not His friends).
 
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Phil 1:21

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Blasphemy! Adoration is for God alone!
Agreed. But when people see the threads like the only below, where there is an altar to Mary set up in someone’s home, I’m sure you can understand why folks get the impression that someone worships Mary. What do you think Jesus would have done had someone erected an altar to Abraham, Isaac, or Moses in the middle of the temple? I suspect the money changers would think they got off lightly.

What is the first and greatest commandment?

Home Altars
 
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Catholicism is filled with pagan ideology. Prayer to Mary? Blasphemous. Calling her the mother of GOD? Even more blasphemous. This is GODDESS WORSHIP. Catholics also ask saints and angels for protection which is not good. If God wants to send an angel to help a man, that is one thing. But do not ask an angel in prayer. This is pagan and it is angel worship. When you close your eyes and speak to Michael as you would God, you are PRAYING TO MICHAEL. Please my Catholic brothers and sisters, you must see that this is wrong. Remember when John was shown the end of the world in a vision in Revelation? He fell and worshipped the angel that showed him the things to come and the angel said to him, "see thou do it not. For I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God." He said to John, "DON'T DO THAT. WORSHIP GOD." Also note that he said that he is of our brothers and is a fellowservant. Angels act according to God's command. They will not act of their own volition to respond to your prayer. It was also the Catholic church that claimed to switch the Sabbath day to Sunday which is incredibly blasphemous. This is claiming that man can move God's holy Sabbath to another day. Sunday is "Sun worship day." During the creation of the Catholic church in Rome, the emperor of Rome at that time was making his conversion from a pagan to a Christian. Well when he was doing so, a lot of pagan Romans were upset that they were being made subject to all this Christian philosophy and their holy days and celebrations, so to appease both Roman Christian and Roman pagan alike, he "moved the Sabbath" to Sunday so that the pagans and Christians in Rome would live in harmony and celebrate their gods on the same day. The Sabbath is not on Sunday. The word Sunday literally means Sun Day or Sun worship day. A special day of the week for pagan Rome to celebrate and honor and worship the sun god. There are so many reasons why the Catholic church is dangerous to the Christian soul. Please friends and Catholic brothers and sisters, walk away from it. I say this with love.
 
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PeterDona

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Just to add to an argument I made earlier, that Matthew makes a point of calling Mary "Mary the mother of James and Joses" after Jesus death, I thought this was consistent in the Bible until I saw that in Acts 1:14 Mary is once more called "Mary the mother of Jesus". This does subtract from my argument, I feel.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Like ask for a drink of water?

Give me a bit to look into this one, I'll get back to you.

So Jesus asking for a drink, is that out of no where and pointless? Does that come out of nowhere? Does that prove that the Sacrifice of the Cross isn't that Holy, and some things can happen with no rhyme or reason? Well no, Jesus said this to fulfill Biblical Prophecy, in Psalm 68:22 we read:

"And they gave me gall for my food, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." (DR)
Likewise, in Psalm 69:21 we read:

"They gave me poison for food,
and for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." (RSV-CE)


In the other Gospels, -And this reinforces the fact that the line "Behold Thy Mother" is really important, and meant for all those who read the Holy Gospel- Jesus says He won't drink the fruit of the vine until the Kingdom comes:

"And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father." -St. Matthew 26:29 (DR)
Thus, Jesus' thirsting on the Cross shows that the Kingdom is indeed come.

Finally, Jesus' thirsting on the Cross, is often seen as a thirsting for souls, a call for us to Evangelize and baptize all people and nations, this is what inspired St. Teresa of Calcutta to do her awesome missionary work and help the poor.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Non sense - the most logical explanation of the passage is exactly what it appears to be. Jesus is giving the care of His mother over to, arguably, His most beloved and trusted disciple. There is nothing more to it.

All good systematic theologies - whether Protestant or Catholic - recognize two types of statements in scripture.

Descriptive literature simply describes what happened. Narrative literature is basically descriptive. It is telling what happened, but not necessarily telling readers that they should do everything in the same manner.

Prescriptive literature commands the reader to a course of action. Prescriptive literature instructs the reader to do something, to act in such and such a way. Prescriptive writing is characterized by lots of imperatives, i.e., commands.”

For example:

"But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He *said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, *said, “I am thirsty.” John 19:25-28

This is a classic example of a descriptive passage which is often taken as prescriptive.
This is the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Holy event in history, why would Jesus wait until this Most Holy Moment to entrust Mary to Saint John? I prefer to preach Christ Crucified!

"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Luke 22:19

This is a classic example of a prescriptive passage. But it is often stretched to mean more than intended to support some particular dogma - just as you have done with the descriptive passage above. Catholics tend to do that a lot.
Off-topic.

You would do well to remember that the Lord seems to have purposefully given us scriptures which can be stretched to develop cultist teachings. He seems to have given those who lack the Holy Spirit enough rope to hang themselves as it were.

It seems that this is a bit of a test- in order to show wheat from weeds at the judgment.

"No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19

For example - stretched beyond it's descriptive intention by Mormons:

"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"

You have done a similar thing here to what the Mormons have done. It will likely be your undoing IMO.

This is a test to see whether you are truly a "sola scriptura" type or a "traditions of men above the Word of God type".
Do not call God a liar!
 
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RC1970

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So Jesus asking for a drink, is that out of no where and pointless? Does that come out of nowhere? Does that prove that the Sacrifice of the Cross isn't that Holy, and some things can happen with no rhyme or reason? Well no, Jesus said this to fulfill Biblical Prophecy, in Psalm 68:22 we read:

"And they gave me gall for my food, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." (DR)
Likewise, in Psalm 69:21 we read:

"They gave me poison for food,
and for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." (RSV-CE)


In the other Gospels, -And this reinforces the fact that the line "Behold Thy Mother" is really important, and meant for all those who read the Holy Gospel- Jesus says He won't drink the fruit of the vine until the Kingdom comes:

"And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father." -St. Matthew 26:29 (DR)
Thus, Jesus' thirsting on the Cross shows that the Kingdom is indeed come.

Finally, Jesus' thirsting on the Cross, is often seen as a thirsting for souls, a call for us to Evangelize and baptize all people and nations, this is what inspired St. Teresa of Calcutta to do her awesome missionary work and help the poor.
You are correct about the prophecy concerning his asking for something to drink, however, where does the OT show any prophecy about Mary being called our mother?

If this is what is meant by Jesus exclamation from the cross, surly there is an OT prophecy concerning this idea.
 
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Marvin Knox

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Do not call God a liar!
I don't intend to. I never have. I never will.
I've got to go, Dinner is ready, I might be back later.
I hope when you return you make more sense than you did in the previous posts.

By the way - there is no doubt that Jesus loves His mother - whether you personally choose to call her "our lady" or simply "Mary".

The question before us is whether He has exalted her to be the "queen of Heaven" and whether it pleases Him to have His people pray to her as an intermediary between God and man.

The answer to that question is an unequivocal - NO.
 
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PeterDona

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In the other Gospels, -And this reinforces the fact that the line "Behold Thy Mother" is really important, and meant for all those who read the Holy Gospel- Jesus says He won't drink the fruit of the vine until the Kingdom comes:

"And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father." -St. Matthew 26:29 (DR)
Thus, Jesus' thirsting on the Cross shows that the Kingdom is indeed come.
I could not in this explanation find a good understanding why the "Behold Thy Mother" should be central in that context. Can you maybe restate the explanation?

The question before us is whether He has exalted her to be the "queen of Heaven" and whether it pleases Him to have His people pray to her as an intermediary between God and man.
Can any of the catholics here confirm? Is this really what (all) catholics believe, that Mary is some sort of "queen of heaven"?
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Just showing one verse that even hints at it would be a start. No where does it ever say that anyone is our intercessor other than Jesus who evermore lives to make intercession for His saints. Though it does say the Holy Spirit prays on our behalf when we know not what to ask in Romans.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Just showing one verse that even hints at it would be a start. No where does it ever say that anyone is our intercessor other than Jesus who evermore lives to make intercession for His saints. Though it does say the Holy Spirit prays on our behalf when we know not what to ask in Romans.
The standard response to this is the wedding at Cana. However, nowhere in that story is there any account of someone asking Mary to intercede on their behalf. All we know if that Mary asked Jesus to do something and he obliged, the same way he did for Martha when he raised Lazarus, or for Jairus when He raised his daughter.
 
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