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I’ve lost count on how many times I’ve addressed this on in this thread.
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I’ve lost count on how many times I’ve addressed this on in this thread.9. God is Faithful Even When We Are Not – “If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself” (2 Timothy 2:13). If salvation depended on our faithfulness, we’d all be lost.
10. Believers Are Predestined for Glory – Romans 8:30 says those He justified, He also glorified. There is no mention of some falling away in the process.
Yes, it is finished, Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, not just our sins. Does that mean that the whole world will be saved?11. Sin Was Paid for in Full – Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). If salvation could be lost, then sin was not fully paid for.
A person doesn’t have to be “unborn” to die the second death.13. Salvation is Being Born Again – A person cannot be unborn once they are spiritually reborn (John 3:3-7).
Those that the Father had given Him were those who were drawn by The Father before His crucifixion. That drawing by The Father has been obsolete since His crucifixion, hence John 12:32.14. Jesus Prayed for Our Security – In John 17:11-12, Jesus prayed that the Father would keep those given to Him. His prayers are always answered.
Who rubbed you with a hot brick? (Get over yourself, my old friend.)Now there you go with this TRUE faith garbage. Unbelievable!
1Jn 2:19.Please state chapter and vs. where the distinction is made.
Precisely. . .So Simon Magnus had faith but not TRUE faith. So the seed sown among the thorns sprouted roots but they were not REAL roots but fake roots.
One is of human-only choice, the other is of the Holy Spirit.This added adjective/abverb to Scripture is all over the place in modern evangelicalism. And apparently you can't see it, as you use this stuff.
Just what is the difference between faith and TRUE faith? Between belief and TRUE belief?
Not my definition. . .the statement defines itself. . .it's the plain word of Scripture.Too narrowing defined.
The last thing I wanted to do here is a full blown analysis of Apostasy which will taken a week or two. I John 2 can be used in some cases in the NT but certainly not all...I will probably have to deal with 50 verses of Apostasy compared to your three. And I don't use the hermenuetic principle when the Bible says faith it really means unbelief (as specific contexts do not permit this interpretation). And I have seen alot of the principle here at CF: When the Bible says this....it really means that.
Will I John 2:19 be the final filter for all apostasy texts? We shall see.
This is certainly a hot button topic. The Orthodox, Rome, Lutherans, Anglicans and early Anabaptists side with apostasy. Calvinists certianly side with Perseverance, along with a great many American Evangelicals etc. Side the Perseverance.
I find no conflict therein when understood in the light of all the NT, which presentsMy own thoughts on this: I take all the perseverance texts in the Scriptures and put them in one bucket. Then all the apostasy texts in another bucket....then teach according....but one thing I don't do is TRY TO RECONCILE THEM.
Not my definition. . .the statement defines itself. . .it's the plain word of Scripture.
Finally, the presupposition: You are a reconciililst. I along with Rome, the Orthodox, Lutherans, Arminians, Anglicans, and Methodists are not.
I don't know. There are lots of verses people use to support the idea that people can become unsaved through unbelief, disobedience, faithlessness, denial of Christ, not taking advantage of God's grace, etc. But when I read verses like 2 Timothy 2:12 that say, "If we deny Him, He will deny us", it almost never occurs to me that the warning applies to me because I do not worry about losing my salvation.So how does this line up with 2 Timothy 2:12? If we deny Him, He will deny us. Why is Paul warning Timothy of something that you claim is impossible for either of them to do?
Imagine that!Finally, the presupposition: You are a reconciililst.
Why a low human view of the word of God.I along with Rome, the Orthodox, Lutherans, Arminians, Anglicans, and Methodists are not.
# 1 IT is speaking to Israel , period !both verses point to the importance of remaining faithful to Christ. This isn’t about an occasional stumble or moment of doubt but about a deliberate rejection of Jesus, which will result in being denied by Him at the end of time.
Your claim that these verses "only apply to Israel" is not biblically sustainable. The New Testament was not divided into sections for different people groups. All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable (2 Tim 3:16) — and that includes the warnings and promises regarding faithfulness to Christ. Paul himself, the apostle to the Gentiles, warned believers in the Body of Christ to continue in the faith (Col. 1:21–23), saying plainly:# 1 IT is speaking to Israel , period !
# 2 And not to the BODY of Christ !
# 3 John 6:40 says everyone that SEETH // THEOREO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , PARTICILE MOOD
in the SGNULAR .
# 4 Then comes the Greek word THE // HO , is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , which is pointing to the next Greek word
SON // HURIOS , in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , means LIMITED in the SINGULAR , meaning one at a time .
And I have already written a word for word explanation of 2 n Tim 2:12 -13 I believe , under DISPENSATION TITLE !!
dan p
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