Why Jesus died?

[AndrewK788]

thank you for reminding us that there is no thinking inside the box...

I have a question: what would be considered thinking "outside the box?" Placing human understanding and reason above what Scripture says? I mean seriously. I'm all for not thinking inside the box, but where exactly are you coming from with this?

 

[sentipente]

I have a question: what would be considered thinking "outside the box?" Placing human understanding and reason above what Scripture says?

Do you realize that without what you have called "human understanding and reason" we would not have what you call Scripture? The Bible did not suddenly appear in the heavens all printed and bound. Humans wrote these manuscripts and human committees compiled them, using human understanding and reason, and called them Scripture.

 

[mva1985]

Prov. 3
"5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones."



Mindless recitation of scripture - that indeed is interesting.

 

[sentipente]

I believe you have made a wise choice in using the Bible as your final standard.

Are you referring to the book that was compiled using human understanding and reason from ancient manuscripts?

 

[mva1985]

MVA, I prefer to have intelligent discourse here as compared to the mindless recitation of biblical texts that is so commonplace among some Christians. Most Christians, including you I suppose, do not accept Paul's view that women should keep silence in the church. Paul is not the final authority on truth.

*** Note future reference ***

 

[sentipente]

MVA, since you are not here for intelligent discourse I will have to ask you to quit attempting to derail this discussion. I would hate to report you for unseemly behavior.

 

[mva1985]

Do you realize that without what you have called "human understanding and reason" we would not have what you call Scripture? The Bible did not suddenly appear in the heavens all printed and bound. Humans wrote these manuscripts and human committees compiled them, using human understanding and reason, and called them Scripture.

I guess you are saying that God played no part in that? Maybe throw in a little inspiration here and there?

 

[mva1985]

MVA, since you are not here for intelligent discourse I will have to ask you to quit attempting to derail this discussion. I would hate to report you for unseemly behavior.

Report away it will result in a NV. I have not derailed the thread. It is still on topic.

 

[StormyOne]

I have a question: what would be considered thinking "outside the box?" Placing human understanding and reason above what Scripture says? I mean seriously. I'm all for not thinking inside the box, but where exactly are you coming from with this?

scripture is the product of human reasoning... God did not dictate it scripture, what does that suggest?

Where am I coming from? Did God say that Jesus would have to die to save humanity? Or does scripture carry that theme because that was their understanding based on what they had i.e. the sacrificial system?

If your child fell into the river, and you jumped in to save them so they wouldn't drown, is there a rule that states to save the one you love the rescuer must die?

 

[sentipente]

Report away it will result in a NV. I have not derailed the thread. It is still on topic.

This response shows that you made no attempt to understand what you read.

 

[mva1985]

This response shows that you made no attempt to understand what you read.

I read the whole thread, and understand just fine.

To say that Jesus death was not necessary is just ridiculous.

 

[AndrewK788]

Well, believe what you will. But by taking God out of the picture and giving human understanding all the credit for writing the Scriptures it would seem that suddenly all credibility of the Bible is suddenly done away with. And with that said: why in the world are you a Christian and how can you put your faith in a God that is constructed from human understanding? I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Avonia]

This is false.

But why use scripture in the way you have to Senti? Especially after he was clear about the issue of Bible authors 'looking through a glass darkly'? I'm not suggesting one or the other of you is more right or more wrong, but if you don't get the frame of reference, how can you interact with the essence of the idea? Forum talk sounds so harsh . . . and you can't see me smiling at you . . . I mean no offense MVA! Cheers!

 

[sentipente]

Andrew, there is no way anyone can take God out of the picture of human affairs. That is a red herring that has been raised by those who would control the minds of men. God is control of this entire universe. He cannot be excluded by anyone. Humans could not reason if He had not given them the ability to reason, and He did not give us the ability to reason so that we should refuse to use it.

 

[sentipente]

I guess you are saying that God played no part in that? Maybe throw in a little inspiration here and there?

You can't throw in inspiration here and there. Inspiration is a constant component in the transfer of knowledge. Without it man could know nothing.

 

[AndrewK788]

Andrew, there is no way anyone can take God out of the picture of human affairs. That is a red herring that has been raised by those who would control the minds of men. God is control of this entire universe. He cannot be excluded by anyone. Humans could not reason if He had not given them the ability to reason, and He did not give us the ability to reason so that we should refuse to use it.

According to human understanding of course.

I'm not trying antagonize, just make a point. By opening the door to this thinking, it would seem that since we still can reason and the Bible is a product of human reason, then new thoughts we have today are just as valid as anything. Where to we find any point of reference if the Bible is suddenly no better than our own modern human understanding?

 

[sentipente]

why in the world are you a Christian and how can you put your faith in a God that is constructed from human understanding?

How did you come to that conclusion? Where have I said that God is constructed from human understanding? Is it your understanding that God is created by the Bible and that He would not exist without the Bible?

 

[AndrewK788]

You can't throw in inspiration here and there. Inspiration is a constant component in the transfer of knowledge. Without it man could know nothing.

Okay, so is this saying that you agree that God inspired the Bible? If so, then I guess we don't disagree as much as I previously thought.

 

[AndrewK788]

How did you come to that conclusion? Where have I said that God is constructed from human understanding? Is it your understanding that God is created by the Bible and that He would not exist without the Bible?

No, but my point is as Christians much of our understanding of God and Jesus comes from the Bible. If that is suddenly labeled as not credible, then what do we have? There is a God. Okay, now what?

 

[mva1985]

You can't throw in inspiration here and there. Inspiration is a constant component in the transfer of knowledge. Without it man could know nothing.

I was being sarcastic - I should have made that a little more clear, that is my fault.