Why Israel has been set aside !

[readywriter]

'Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (Genesis 21:12) That is,
They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(Rom 9:6)

'I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid.
For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?
how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

'Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down thine altars;
and I am left alone, and they seek my life.'​

But what saith the answer of God unto him?

'I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men,
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.' (1 Kings 19:10-18)​

Even so then at this present time also
there is a remnant according to the election of grace.'
(Rom 11:1-5)

Which of the two Israels found in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5 are you talking about?
Are you talking about Israel of the "flesh", or Israel of the "promise", which is the "remnant" found in Romans 11:5, and also in Romans 9:27.

Hello @BABerean2,

The subject of the thread is, 'Why Israel is set aside'. This prompted the question you have asked, with the Scriptures from Romans quoted above. Yet it is obvious that it is Israel after the flesh which is the subject, because the believing remnant of Israel have been called out and secured in Christ. It is the nation of Israel which in AD70 was destroyed and it's inhabitants scattered throughout the nations.

BABerean2 said:-
The ultimate fulfillment of Israel is found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16. Christ is both the Son of God and the King of Israel in the verse below.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

* I do not see what Matthew 1:1, Galatians 3:16, or John 1:49, that you quote, have to do with Israel's lo-ammi condition at this time.
* This condition is temporary, for God has not 'cast away' His People.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[1watchman]

Essentially, Israel has been set aside as God's "covenant" people now, for rejecting their Prophets, and crying out for the Romans to kill their Messiah: the Lord Jesus. They have and will suffer much until they repent and bow to the Lord Jesus: now and until He comes again in the "millennium" to reign supreme. There are some Israelites who have found the Lord Jesus as their Savior, and one of them was our guide on a visit there, who was of the tribe: Nephali.
The 'covenant' to make Israel God's people will be re-instated AFTER the Millennium time with Christ's reign. There will forever be a Heavenly people: Christians ("born again" in this age, as shown in John 3; John 14; etc), with Jesus Christ in Heaven; and an earthly people: new Israel on earth under God's rule as in the past, as the Book of Revelation shows us. --1watchman

 

[BABerean2]

The subject of the thread is, 'Why Israel is set aside'.

Show the verse which says "Israel is set aside."

.

 

[Dan Perez]

Show the verse which says "Israel is set aside."

.

And in 2 Cor 3:14 is the answer .

#1 Israel was BLINDED / POREO is in the AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .

The Aorist tense that Israel was indeed BLINDED and the Passive Voice means that Christ blinded them and the Indicative Mood means it is a FACT .

#2 And UNTIL THIS DAY Israel has been REMAINETH / MENO blinded and is in the PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and is a FACT .

#3 And until this day A VAIL / KALYMMA is the NOMINATIVE CASE in the subject of this BLINDNESS for over 2000 years .

#4 And this VAIL is UNTAKEN / ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICILE NEGATIVE andmit means that the VAIL Christ placed over Israel is still THERE , PERIOD .

dan p

 

[BABerean2]

#1 Israel was BLINDED / POREO is in the AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .

The Aorist tense that Israel was indeed BLINDED and the Passive Voice means that Christ blinded them and the Indicative Mood means it is a FACT .

Paul said part of them were blinded in the passage below.
Do you know the difference?
Can you change the meaning of the passage below with your use of the Greek?


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

.

 

[Dan Perez]

Paul said part of them were blinded in the passage below.
Do you know the difference?
Can you change the meaning of the passage below with your use of the Greek?


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

.

And 2 Cor 3: 13 that Israel that by Acts 28: 27 and 28 Paul and we know Israel has been set ASIDE and Paul turns to the Gentiles and we also know that even todays Jews are being saved when they read the Law , Christ takes the VAIL from their HEARTS , 2 Cor 3:16 , during this AGE OF GRACE .

The nation of Israel will be saved as written in Rom 11:26 and NOT until then , believe what Paul has written ,

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

There are many reasons why Israel has been set aside .

#1 Moses was the MEDIATOR of the Law .

#2 Under the NEW COVEANAT , Christ will be the Mediator , and can anyone say that is true today , and the answer is NO .

#3 In Jer 3 :14 Christ says He was married unto to them .

#4 In verse 8 He gave Israel and Judah a BILL of DIVORCE .

#5 Israel and Judah are still divided and in Eze 37:19 Christ will make them ONE STICK again , and until that happens , there can not be a NEW COVENANT , PERIOD .

#6 In Eze 37:19 MAKE / ASA stick , and the Hebrew stem of make is QAL and is in the aspect is the PERFECT TENSE .

Qal means to know by experience .

#7 and in Eze 37:19 they will have to be ONE in Christ hand , and that has yet to happen .

#8 And Israel has yet to be in the LAND that Christ promised to Abraham .

dan p

In Jeremiah 3:8, God only gave the Northern Kingdom, however, throughout that chapter, God continued to call for them to return to Him. In Jeremiah 31:31, God made the New Covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, so that demonstrates that He did not set them aside. Furthermore, the New Covenant is made on better promises and one of those promises in Jeremiah 31:35-37 is that Israel would never cease to be a nation before Him.

 

[readywriter]

In Jeremiah 3:8, God only gave the Northern Kingdom, however, throughout that chapter, God continued to call for them to return to Him. In Jeremiah 31:31, God made the New Covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, so that demonstrates that He did not set them aside. Furthermore, the New Covenant is made on better promises and one of those promises in Jeremiah 31:35-37 is that Israel would never cease to be a nation before Him.

Hello @Soyeong

No, praise God, Israel will not cease to be a nation before Him, that is true: but there were many times throughout their history when they were scattered among the nations because of their behaviour before God, and became Lo-ammi (not my People); but they would always be restored when they sought Him with repentance. That is the record of the book of Judges, and prophesied in Deuteronomy.

So they are at present 'not my People', but they will again, in that day of repentance, again be 'My People' and God will be their God.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BABerean2]

So they are at present 'not my People', but they will again, in that day of repentance, again be 'My People' and God will be their God.

And when is this day when every person with any of Jacob's DNA is going to come to repentance?

Does that include atheists, and agnostics, and devil worshippers?


The Jews in the family below have not been "set aside".

.

 

[Dan Perez]

And when is this day when every person with any of Jacob's DNA is going to come to repentance?

Does that include atheists, and agnostics, and devil worshippers?


The Jews in the family below have not been "set aside".

.

And anyone that reads Rom 11:8 and checks the Greek text , says IT IS WRITTEN and these words are in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD

You will find these WORDS , IT IS WRITTEN many more times and it means that Israel was given the spirit OF SLUMBER , eyes to see NOT /OV is a DISJUNCTIVE NEGATIVE and it means that Israel has been blinded so not to see and ears to hears NOT / OV and all of Israel will never see and there ears will not understand UNTIL Rom 11:26 .

The PASSIVE VOICE means Christ blinded them and the INDICATIVE MOOD means it is a FACT until Rom 11:26 .

Did all of Israel accept Jesus as their KING , NO , and did all believe in the resurrection , was not Israel demon possessed , YES !!

dan p

 

[readywriter]

And when is this day when every person with any of Jacob's DNA is going to come to repentance?

Does that include atheists, and agnostics, and devil worshippers?

Hello BABerean2,

Stop, look and listen, and stop behaving like a sheep beating his head against a barn door.

God's will, will be fully done, for Israel and for the whole of His creation, both in heaven and on earth. I am done with arguing. He is just and the justifier of him who believeth in Jesus (Romans 3:26), and I praise Him and thank Him that this includes me.

May His Name be praised.
With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[BABerean2]

God's will, will be fully done, for Israel and for the whole of His creation, both in heaven and on earth.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?

(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)



The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?


1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)


2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?


3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?


4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?


5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?


6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?


7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?


8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)


9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?



10. Watch the YouTube video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.



Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:



“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.


Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.


John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…


"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)

What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?

Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?

Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?

Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?




.

 

[BABerean2]

and it means that Israel has been blinded

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

.

 

[Dan Perez]

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?

(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)



The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?


1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)


2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?


3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?


4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?


5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?


6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "the




.

And as point#6 is very easy to explain only for those that do not check the Greek text .

I checked the following Translation , the KJV , NLT , NIV , ESV , NET , RSV and the YLT and some used in their translation , the Greek word HOYTO using them same Greek word .

If you did not know this , better check the Greek text !!

dan p

 

[BABerean2]

And as point#6 is very easy to explain only for those that do not check the Greek text .

Romans 11:26

(CSB) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

(ESV) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

(ESV+) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, R11“The Deliverer will come R12from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

(Geneva) And so all Israel shalbe saued, as it is written, The deliuerer shall come out of Sion, and shall turne away the vngodlinesse from Iacob.

(GW) In this way Israel as a whole will be saved, as Scripture says, "The Savior will come from Zion. He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

(HCSB) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.

(KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

(KJV+) AndG2532 soG3779 allG3956 IsraelG2474 shall be saved:G4982 asG2531 it is written,G1125 There shall comeG2240 out ofG1537 SionG4622 theG3588 Deliverer,G4506 andG2532 shall turn awayG654 ungodlinessG763 fromG575 Jacob:G2384

G3779
οὕτω
houtō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.


(NKJV) And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;

(NLT) And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

(YLT) and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, 'There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob,


.

 

[Dan Perez]

Romans 11:26

(CSB) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

(ESV) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

(ESV+) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, R11“The Deliverer will come R12from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

(Geneva) And so all Israel shalbe saued, as it is written, The deliuerer shall come out of Sion, and shall turne away the vngodlinesse from Iacob.

(GW) In this way Israel as a whole will be saved, as Scripture says, "The Savior will come from Zion. He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

(HCSB) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.

(KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

(KJV+) AndG2532 soG3779 allG3956 IsraelG2474 shall be saved:G4982 asG2531 it is written,G1125 There shall comeG2240 out ofG1537 SionG4622 theG3588 Deliverer,G4506 andG2532 shall turn awayG654 ungodlinessG763 fromG575 Jacob:G2384

G3779
οὕτω
houtō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.


(NKJV) And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;

(NLT) And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

(YLT) and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, 'There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob,


.

And if anyone should check these many translation , most use the same Greek ntext in their translation , and many disagree with each other and one Greek book , GREEK for the REST OF US BY WILLAIM D MOUNCE , is a good nread >

dan p

dan p

 

[readywriter]

'Esaias also crieth concerning Israel,
Though the number of the children of Israel
be as the sand of the sea,

a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:27

Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary?
Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)

The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?

1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)

2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?

3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?

4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?

5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?

6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?

7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?

8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)

9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1?
Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel?
Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews?
Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them?
Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15?
Who is the "son" in Psalm 2?
Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53?
Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed?
Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?

10. Watch the YouTube video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.

Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:

“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.

Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.

John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?

'Be kindly affectioned one to another
with brotherly love;
in honour preferring one another;'
(Rom 12:10)

Hello @BABerean2,

I really do not know what doctrinal stance it held by the various factions within Christendom, I care about what is written in God's word.
I do not accuse or condemn, for it is the word of God itself that will do that.
I treat each person as an individual, and not as part of a corporate entity.
We each hold the precious message of God in our hands, and we who have the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, also have the Holy Spirit who takes of the things of Christ and makes them ours.

So, if you don't mind, I would prefer to rejoice in the truths of God's word than argue over the views held by man.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BABerean2]

'Be kindly affectioned one to another
with brotherly love;
in honour preferring one another;'
(Rom 12:10)

Hello @BABerean2,

I really do not know what doctrinal stance it held by the various factions within Christendom, I care about what is written in God's word.
I do not accuse or condemn, for it is the word of God itself that will do that.
I treat each person as an individual, and not as part of a corporate entity.
We each hold the precious message of God in our hands, and we who have the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, also have the Holy Spirit who takes of the things of Christ and makes them ours.

So, if you don't mind, I would prefer to rejoice in the truths of God's word than argue over the views held by man.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Anyone who believes modern Jews cannot believe the Gospel now because they have been "set aside", cares not about what is plainly written in God's Word. Paul had to correct Peter in the passage below for treating the Jews differently than the Gentiles. Why are many today making the same error?


Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


The source of this modern "Two Peoples of God" doctrine is found below.
It was brought to the United States by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War, as revealed below.

.

 

[readywriter]

Anyone who believes modern Jews cannot believe the Gospel now because they have been "set aside", cares not about what is plainly written in God's Word. Paul had to correct Peter in the passage below for treating the Jews differently than the Gentiles. Why are many today making the same error?

Hello @BABerean2,

Is that what is believed? Yet the word of God says clearly that the door of the Church which is the Body of Christ is open to individuals regardless of their nationality. Both Jew and Gentile.

BABerean2 quotes:-
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

The source of this modern "Two Peoples of God" doctrine is found below.
It was brought to the United States by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War, as revealed below.

* The nation of Israel are the people of God, though at present in a Lo-ammi condition, as they have been so often in their history. Foreknown by God and revealed through Moses in Deuteronomy and elsewhere in Scripture.

* They are not to be counted among the nations, they are a people separated unto God. That is a matter of Biblical record, and not open to dispute.

* The Church which is the Body of Christ, comprising of Jew and Gentile, is a company which will inhabit the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, far above all: where their blessings, which are all spiritual, will be enjoyed; whereas Redeemed Israel's hope and blessings will be realised upon the earth. Both are God's own inheritance, the one occupying the earth, the other the heavens.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[readywriter]

Essentially, Israel has been set aside as God's "covenant" people now, for rejecting their Prophets, and crying out for the Romans to kill their Messiah: the Lord Jesus. They have and will suffer much until they repent and bow to the Lord Jesus: now and until He comes again in the "millennium" to reign supreme. There are some Israelites who have found the Lord Jesus as their Savior, and one of them was our guide on a visit there, who was of the tribe: Nephali.
The 'covenant' to make Israel God's people will be re-instated AFTER the Millennium time with Christ's reign. There will forever be a Heavenly people: Christians ("born again" in this age, as shown in John 3; John 14; etc), with Jesus Christ in Heaven; and an earthly people: new Israel on earth under God's rule as in the past, as the Book of Revelation shows us. --1watchman

Hello, @1watchman,

Regarding the timing of Jeremiah 31:31 you say it will take place AFTER the millennium years. Would you be kind enough to furnish me with the Scriptures that make that clear. Not that I doubt that, but that I find it difficult getting the chronology of these things clear in my mind. If you do not have the time to do so, that's no problem.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris