LDS Why is the word "Bible" in the BoM?

[Rescued One]

The Book of Mormon denigrates the Bible. The Book of Mormon supposedly corrects the Bible. The Book of Mormon doesn't instruct the reader to search the scriptures of old to see if the Book of Mormon is true.

There is an overwhelming lack of understanding in the world in relation to these principles of salvation and exaltation given to prepare mankind for a place in the kingdom of God, and this lack causes many to stumble. There is no excuse on the part of members of the Church, for they have received the necessary revelation directly from the heavens in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. The great mission of the Son of God has been revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants more clearly than any other place. Many passages that have been misunderstood, and therefore mistranslated in the Bible, are clarified in these sacred volumes.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 4:.)

Why is the word Bible in the Book of Mormon? What is the purpose of using that word? What does the Book of Mormon say about the Bible?

 

[He is the way]

The Book of Mormon denigrates the Bible. The Book of Mormon supposedly corrects the Bible. The Book of Mormon doesn't instruct the reader to search the scriptures of old to see if the Book of Mormon is true.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 17:2)

2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God.

 

[He is the way]

Why is the word Bible in the Book of Mormon? What is the purpose of using that word? What does the Book of Mormon say about the Bible?

Because this is a prophecy from God written before it happened and it came to pass:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 29:3 - 7)

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

 

[Rescued One]

(Book of Mormon | Alma 17:2)

2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God.

I repeat: The Book of Mormon denigrates the Bible. The Book of Mormon supposedly corrects the Bible. The Book of Mormon doesn't instruct the reader to search the scriptures of old to see if the Book of Mormon is true.

So these fictitious people in the Book of Mormon, who had no Bible searched their non-existent scriptures --- but definitely not to see if Mormonism was true. There was no Book of Mormon.

 

[Rescued One]

Because this is a prophecy from God written before it happened and it came to pass:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 29:3 - 7)

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

Sorry --- that is hardly an explanation.

 

[He is the way]

I repeat: The Book of Mormon denigrates the Bible. The Book of Mormon supposedly corrects the Bible. The Book of Mormon doesn't instruct the reader to search the scriptures of old to see if the Book of Mormon is true.

So these fictitious people in the Book of Mormon, who had no Bible searched their non-existent scriptures --- but definitely not to see if Mormonism was true. There was no Book of Mormon.

There is a Book of Mormon and I have several of them. The Book of Mormon instructs us to search the scriptures diligently, that we might know the word of God. I do search the scriptures diligently, all of them. That is why I know the Book of Mormon is true.

 

[BigDaddy4]

There is a Book of Mormon and I have several of them. The Book of Mormon instructs us to search the scriptures diligently, that we might know the word of God. I do search the scriptures diligently, all of them. That is why I know the Book of Mormon is true.

Reference?

 

[Anto9us]

Is it contested that the phrase "Bible! Bible! We need no more Bible" is in the BOM?

I know a Yes or No question is impossible for A Mormon on this board to actually answer -- but I still ask:

The word 'Bible" is indeed in the Book of Mormon -- Yes or No?

 

[dzheremi]

It sure would be nice to get some references or even just actual logical reasoning, instead of just more testimonies. I don't mean to degrade anyone's personal belief in the BOM (though it is entirely unfounded), but since plenty of other people can read the Bible and the BOM and come to have faith in one or the other, or both, or neither, I don't really think simply stating "I know the BOM is true" actually means anything in the context of this conversation. It's a statement of personal, subjective belief more akin to "chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla", not "The reason why the word 'Bible' is in the BOM even though it probably shouldn't be is..."

 

[Anto9us]

The word "Bible" does NOT appear in the Book of Mormon.

I submit that that is not true.

It is quite obvious to English readers that the word BIBLE is in the BOM.

Along with other words and phrases that would be anachronistic in the mouths of the alleged ancient people they are allegedly attributed to.

 

[Anto9us]

There is an INDEX at the back of the BOM that I have. The word "BIBLE" has references in 2 Nephi 29:3 and 29:6.

It is obvious to me, that JS, anticipaitng (and rightly so) the opposition to and disbelief in -- his fake scriptures, included these words as a defense against the indefensible -- that his book was a total fraud including numerous anachronisms placed in the mouths of alleged ancient prophets, who appear nowhere in the Bible and nowhere in history.

It's just MADE UP, people !!

 

[dzheremi]

The problem is not even necessarily the presence of the word itself, but that it should appear in the text with the meaning that it has specifically in English and other European languages (not all of them, though; see FenderTLS's post about Greek on the first page of this thread) when there's no explanation as to how it could have acquired that meaning in that particular time and place, if we are to believe the LDS chronology of BOM people. If the BOM people are truly where the LDS say they are in the indicated period, "a Bible" either (a) shouldn't mean anything, or (b) should mean "book", but is mistranslated/an anachronism.

And if it's (b), then we have the additional problem of having no way to tell what it ''should' be, since there's no original autograph or even copies to work from in whatever language LDS want to claim 'Reformed Egyptian' is this time around, so there's no correcting the supposed 'translation'.

Or, yes, in other words it is all made up.

 

[Anto9us]

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 29:3 - 7)

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

 

[Anto9us]

"between 539 and 545 BC" is in the footnote of BOM as the time when this part of Nephi was allegedly written. In that same chapter is the phrase "I am the same yesterday and forever" -- imo, an obvious plagiarism of Hebrews 13:8

Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

written over 500 years later than BOM plagiarizes it.

 

[Anto9us]

The word "Bible" appears FIVE TIMES in the Book of Mormon that I have --

published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Salt lake City, Utah, U.S.A, 1974

on page 101

If any Mormon alleges that this is a mistranslation -- what word SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED, and WHY?

These words allegedly were spoken by JS as he looked into a hat with a rock in it, and another dude wrote it down.

 

[Anto9us]

1 Nephi 13:28
Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God..

For the zillionth time -- what are those plain and precious things which should be in the Bible but are not?

What were they, and who took them away, and why?

 

[dzheremi]

It's worth noting that the major centers of Greek culture in the East, where Hellenistic Judaism first came into being (Alexandria and Antioch), were not founded until the end of the 4th century BC in the wake of Alexander the Great's conquests. So what a Jewish writer writing in mid-6th century BC would've been doing using an obviously Greek-derived word to either mean "Bible" (as in Holy Bible, which is how those verses read to me) or "book" (the more generic meaning of Greek "biblia") at a time when the Jews spoke Aramaic (recall that the Babylonian captivity which spread this language among the Jews occurred during the 6th century BC, beginning in 597) is beyond me.

I suspect that recourse will be made to the idea that this is a word that Joseph would have known, and hence 'god' used that word in the translation so that it would make sense to Joseph even though it presumably wouldn't have been the word used in the mythical original language, which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that using that word than introduces an anachronistic concept into the text that sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it clear that the entire translation project is inherently suspect.

I mean, think about it: there are plenty of things, places, and peoples in the actual Bible that a modern person would not be familiar with were it not for their familiarity with the Biblical text itself. Can you imagine what would happen if 'god' tailored any subsequent translation of the text to the specific limitations of the translator in such a strict fashion? "'Can anything good come from...Nazareth'? Huh...dunno what that is...better change it...'Can anything good come from Milwaukee?' Ahhhh...there we go!" In very short order, you'd end with something that makes sense to the person who translated it, but is shockingly disconnected from what the text itself actually says.

I know this ultimately doesn't matter since there is no original text from which the BOM was translated (and no, Mormon belief that reality is otherwise is not reason to reconsider this stance; put up or shut up, LDS Church), but giving Mormons the benefit of the doubt and assuming that there is, or was, or should be in order to make their narrative make sense creates so many problems that it's really impossible to take any of this even the slightest bit seriously.

(And of course not doing that means that there's nothing to talk about, so...take your pick, I guess. Either way, Mormonism is transparently false and unbelievable.)

 

[Anto9us]

http://www.mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm

From a Mormon site -- all the discrepancies of the testimonies of the translation process...
It's just sheer nonsense -- LDS do not agree on what happenned. Rock in the hat - no, no rock in the hat - he looked at the plates, good grief, what a charlatan.

 

[He is the way]

Reference?

(Book of Mormon | Alma 17:2)

2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God.

Therefore we should search the scriptures too for the same reason.

 

[He is the way]

http://www.mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm

From a Mormon site -- all the discrepancies of the testimonies of the translation process...
It's just sheer nonsense -- LDS do not agree on what happenned. Rock in the hat - no, no rock in the hat - he looked at the plates, good grief, what a charlatan.

The plates were used first and later the seer stone was used.