Why is the "Reed Sea" myth continuing to grow?

[verysincere]

In the U.S. at least, why does the "Reed Sea" myth seem to be growing year by year as the presumed rendering of Yam Suf (the Red Sea)?

One can rarely address the topic in the average Bible church without someone insisting that "the Red Sea" is an error and that it "obviously" should be understood as "the Reed Sea".

 

[granpa]

why do you believe its a myth?

 

[Isatis]

One can rarely address the topic in the average Bible church without someone insisting that "the Red Sea" is an error and that it "obviously" should be understood as "the Reed Sea".

The rendering "Red Sea" comes from the Septuagint; the Hebrew phrase means "Sea of Reeds". This phrase may refer to the ancient northern extension of the Red Sea.

The Hebrew term for the place of the crossing is "Yam Suph". Although this has traditionally been thought to refer to the salt water inlet located between Africa and the Arabian peninsula, known in English as the Red Sea, this is a mistranslation from the Greek Septuagint, and Hebrew suph never means "red" but rather "reeds."[6] (While it is not relevant to the identification of the body of water, suph also puns on the Hebrew suphah ("storm") and soph ("end"), referring to the events of the Exodus).[7]
General scholarly opinion is that the Exodus story combines a number of traditions, one of them at the "Reed Sea" (Lake Timsah, with the Egyptians defeated when the wheels of their chariots become clogged) and another at the far deeper Red Sea, allowing the more dramatic telling of events.[8]Source: Crossing the Red Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[verysincere]

The rendering "Red Sea" comes from the Septuagint; the Hebrew phrase means "Sea of Reeds". This phrase may refer to the ancient northern extension of the Red Sea.

That's very outdated scholarship. (Technically, neither "Red Sea" nor "Reed Sea" is correct, but "Red Sea" has been the standard by convention, though many of us would prefer something like "The Seaweed Sea".)

 

[Isatis]

That's very outdated scholarship

LOL

 

[Alan Hooker]

That's very outdated scholarship. (Technically, neither "Red Sea" nor "Reed Sea" is correct, but "Red Sea" has been the standard by convention, though many of us would prefer something like "The Seaweed Sea".)

The Hebrew ים סוף does mean sea of reeds/weeds. Other possible interpretations are 'distant sea' (from סוף, 'terminus') and 'sea of the storm' (from סופ&#1492. The LXX renders with the adjective eruthros meaning 'red'. This is hardly outdated scholarship.

 

[granpa]

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

יוֹסֵף

Joseph = "Jehovah has added"
1) the eldest son of Jacob by Rachel
2) father of Igal, who represented the tribe of Issachar among the spies
3) a son of Asaph
4) a man who took a foreign wife in the time of Ezra
5) a priest of the family of Shebaniah in the time of Nehemiah

 

[Radagast]

The Hebrew ים סוף does mean sea of reeds/weeds. Other possible interpretations are 'distant sea' (from סוף, 'terminus') and 'sea of the storm' (from סופ&#1492. The LXX renders with the adjective eruthros meaning 'red'. This is hardly outdated scholarship.

I's a question of how much weight one puts on the LXX: I tend to suspect the Jews who translated it knew their Hebrew pretty well, and their identification is supported by Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 -- but they could have been wrong.

"Sea of Weeds" does seem to be a literal translation of the Hebrew, but what does that really mean? Some ancient pagan sources do associate the Red Sea with weeds.

 

[he-man]

I's a question of how much weight one puts on the LXX: I tend to suspect the Jews who translated it knew their Hebrew pretty well, and their identification is supported by Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 -- but they could have been wrong.

"Sea of Weeds" does seem to be a literal translation of the Hebrew, but what does that really mean? Some ancient pagan sources do associate the Red Sea with weeds.

From whom and where does the term "RED" come from?

Exo 15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the rush of the sea. nm. reed, rush סוף
ME: from an Anglo-Norman Fr. var. of OFr. ruser 'drive back', an early sense of the word in Engl. (see ruse) 'drive back', perh. based on L. rursus 'backwards'.

 

[Radagast]

From whom and where does the term "RED" come from?

From the LXX, the Greek translation of the OT made around 200 BC, and which was used in Jesus' time. This is what gets quoted in Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29, and so those verses use the word "red" (ἐρυθρός, from which we get our modern word "erythrocyte" = "red blood cell").

Where did your translation of Ex 15:4 come from? Because I'm pretty sure Anglo-Norman French has nothing to do with the meaning of the Hebrew word, and what you say conflicts with the dictionary definition.

 

[he-man]

From the LXX, the Greek translation of the OT made around 200 BC, and which was used in Jesus' time. This is what gets quoted in Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29, and so those verses use the word "red" (ἐρυθρός, from which we get our modern word "erythrocyte" = "red blood cell").

Where did your translation of Ex 15:4 come from? Because I'm pretty sure Anglo-Norman French has nothing to do with the meaning of the Hebrew word, and what you say conflicts with the dictionary definition.

RUSH

Huh? Red blood cell? [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The Hebrew word for red is להאדים not [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]אדומה[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]Red blood cell דורית דם אדומה

I think the exegesis is the rapid rising of the sea rather than the RED sea. Whereas reed is in Hebrew לשונית

Concise Oxford English Dictionary
Exo 15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the rush of the sea. nm. reed, rush סוף or flush, flood, sudden flow of water

ME: from an Anglo-Norman Fr. var. of OFr. ruser 'drive back', an early sense of the word in Engl. (see ruse) 'drive back', perh. based on L. rursus 'backwards'.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ερυθραν H122 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]אדם [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man H119 âdam To show blood[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The Hebrew word for red is להאדים [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]become red, redden, blush, flush: flood, sudden flow of water ME (in the sense 'move rapidly, spring or fly up'): symbolic[/FONT][/FONT]
© Oxford University Press, 2004

(by ellipsis of H3220) H3220 ים yâm From an unused root meaning to roar; a sea (as breaking in noisy surf) or large body of water; specifically (with the article) the Mediterranean; sometimes a large river, or an artificial basin; locally, the west, or (rarely) the south: - sea (X -faring man, [-shore]), south, west (-ern, side, -ward).

 

[Radagast]

Huh? Red blood cell?

I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."

And if you want to translate the Hebrew by "rush," it's the "rush" that means "reed," not the other "rush." See the Hebrew dictionary definition I linked to.

The Concise Oxford English Dictionary cannot tell you about the meaning of Hebrew words.

 

[he-man]

I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."

And if you want to translate the Hebrew by "rush," it's the "rush" that means "reed," not the other "rush." See the Hebrew dictionary definition I linked to.

The Concise Oxford English Dictionary cannot tell you about the meaning of Hebrew words.

Huh???
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The Hebrew word for red is not אדם it is להאדים [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]become red, redden, blush, flush: flood, sudden flow of water ME (in the sense 'move rapidly, spring or fly up'): symbolic[/FONT][/FONT]
© Oxford University Press, 2004

RUSH as reed is not the only definition for the word. Where do you think we get the translations if not from Hebrew into English? Not to mention the fact that the Hebrew word your dictionary is incorrectly trying to define is אדם [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man from H119 âdam To show blood[/FONT][/FONT]

Huh? Red blood cell? [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The Hebrew word for red is להאדים not [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]אדומה[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Red blood cell דורית דם אדומה

I think the exegesis is the rapid rising of the sea rather than the RED sea. Whereas reed is in Hebrew לשונית

Concise Oxford English Dictionary
Exo 15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the rush of the sea. nm. reed, rush סוף or flush, flood, sudden flow of water

ME: from an Anglo-Norman Fr. var. of OFr. ruser 'drive back', an early sense of the word in Engl. (see ruse) 'drive back', perh. based on L. rursus 'backwards'.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The equivalent of ερυθραν according to yours is H122 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]אדם [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man H119 âdam To show blood[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Radagast]

I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."

... because Acts and Hebrews, like the rest of the NT, were written in Greek.

 

[BigBoof1959]

Jeff Benner at ancient-hebrew.org relates the meaning of yam suf to the word sof, meaning "edge or limit", "lip" (as being the edge of the mouth), and "reeds" (since reeds grow on the edges of a marsh). The meaning of lips and the mouth co-incide well with what happened to the Egyptians there. They were "swallowed" in the sea. How the word got translated "red" in the LXX isn't clear. Lips and the inside of the mouth are red, maybe?

 

[granpa]

or maybe the "sea of Joseph"

 

[Radagast]

How the word got translated "red" in the LXX isn't clear.

Here's a thought. Maybe Jews living 2200 years ago actually knew Biblical Hebrew well enough to translate it correctly?

 

[BigBoof1959]

Exodus 2:3 & 2:5 seem to imply that the basket or 'tevah' that Moses was placed in was "among" the "suf" along the Nile. If the Hebrews 2000 years ago understood the word "suf" to be a shade of red, (and hence translated it with eruthros in the LXX) you would think that Exodus 2:3 would say that the basket containing Moses was put "on" the "suf" (denoting red water?), and not "among" the "suf". Who knows, maybe there was a species of reed that was also "red" in color? Isaiah 19:6 and Jonah 2:5 make it hard to believe that the only meaning of "suf" is the color red.

 

[Radagast]

... Isaiah 19:6 and Jonah 2:5 make it hard to believe that the only meaning of "suf" is the color red.

I don't believe anyone suggested that.