why is the middle class for increased immigration and the low incomes against?

[MorkandMindy]

I don't think it's a secret any more that the Democratic Party is now the party of the very rich and of the non-manufacturing middle class, and the Republican Party is the party of everyone else.

[Increased immigration isn't a matter of good or bad, it is a lot more nuanced.

I can't think of how anyone in any country would want to refuse immigration of very highly skilled engineers and similar as that is what the economy depends upon. Elon Musk and many before him including almost everyone in the atomic bomb project have been indispensable in making the country what it is right now.

The question of who immigration is good for and bad for is a complex one, probably with different answers right down to the exact individual and situation. So much for the truth.]

Overall the Democrats are for increased or even unrestricted immigration and the Republicans against and I think on the basis of the supporters of the two parties it is easy to explain the difference.

 

[MorkandMindy]

In terms of immigration as numbers only, low skilled immigrants will increase pressure on the already depleted supply of low skilled employment and on low cost housing, so the opposition of the low income people including of course, legal immigrants already here, is to be expected.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Most of my relatives are middle class or think they are middle class, of the non manufacturing variety, and have explained to me patiently why immigration is such a good thing.

More students to teach in schools, more patients at the clinic, more shoppers in retail stores, more students in the colleges, more income for the professors and teachers, more administration for local government, more clients for insurance firms, basically more jobs all around.

More people bringing in rents and more people paying mortgages and local taxes

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

In terms of immigration as numbers only, low skilled immigrants will increase pressure on the already depleted supply of low skilled employment and on low cost housing, so the opposition of the low income people including of course, legal immigrants already here, is to be expected.

Who wants these horrible jobs, that illegals will do?

 

[MorkandMindy]

Post 2 and 3 hopefully explain how it is better for the higher income people and worse for lower income people,

and that puts it in the same category as all the other policies over the past few decades, particularly neoliberalism which means competition for everyone in manufacturing and none for those in the middle classes.

We in the lower incomes have to compete on a global scale. It is surprising how many jobs can be outsourced.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Who wants these horrible jobs, that illegals will do?

I do. Who was already doing those jobs before the illegals came?

 

[Speedwell]

I do. Who was already doing those jobs before the illegals came?

And who is it that is stalling on enforcing laws against the hiring of illegals?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I do. Who was already doing those jobs before the illegals came?

Slaves and Native Indians, that survived by fleeing to Mexico. And for some reason are considered illegals. And no , people usually aren't capable of slaving away, for hardly no money.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I don't think it's a secret any more that the Democratic Party is now the party of the very rich and of the non-manufacturing middle class, and the Republican Party is the party of everyone else.

[Increased immigration isn't a matter of good or bad, it is a lot more nuanced.

I can't think of how anyone in any country would want to refuse immigration of very highly skilled engineers and similar as that is what the economy depends upon. Elon Musk and many before him including almost everyone in the atomic bomb project have been indispensable in making the country what it is right now.

The question of who immigration is good for and bad for is a complex one, probably with different answers right down to the exact individual and situation. So much for the truth.]

Overall the Democrats are for increased or even unrestricted immigration and the Republicans against and I think on the basis of the supporters of the two parties it is easy to explain the difference.

Democrats support open borders even though there won’t be enough jobs to go around when automation kills zillions of them in the next few decades.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I do. Who was already doing those jobs before the illegals came?

My great grandparents who came from Ireland were 'white trash'.

And who is it that is stalling on enforcing laws against the hiring of illegals?

I don't know.

Slaves and Native Indians, that survived by fleeing to Mexico. And for some reason are considered illegals. And no , people usually aren't capable of slaving away, for hardly no money.

Do those jobs still exist? I've done some of the worst, so I really should know.

 

[Pommer]

I don't think it's a secret any more that the Democratic Party is now the party of the very rich and of the non-manufacturing middle class, and the Republican Party is the party of everyone else.

You mean apart from all of the billionaires in 45’s cabinet?

 

[MorkandMindy]

Democrats support open borders even though there won’t be enough jobs to go around when automation kills zillions of them in the next few decades.

Thinking through open borders raises the question of after greeting our new friends, where are they going to live?

Present numbers of immigrants is just under a million a year. Enough concrete for apartments or houses is going to mean emitting huge amounts of carbon dioxide (concrete making does that). Huge amounts of piping to lay bringing services, more roads, just forget about any environmental targets.

 

[MorkandMindy]

You mean apart from all of the billionaires in 45’s cabinet?

There are billionaires on both sides, not just because billionaires like to have fun, and hedge their bets, but because there are shorter term gains from looting the country, neoliberal/democratic style, and some to be gained over the longer term.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't know.

The Republican party as led by Donald J. Trump, that's who. Right now we have a problem with asylum seekers from Central America, but ordinary illegal economic migration from Mexico is declining and could be all but eliminated by strict enforcement of laws against hiring illegal aliens which the Republicans decline to do, because the economic interests who support them want that cheap labor. Blaming it on "Democrats" who want "open borders" is just Kool-Aid.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Dang these threads are hard to write. Everything seems so simple at first:

People with houses or investments in low cost apartments, and those in the service industries are going to want immigration,

while those competing for low cost rentals and low paid jobs will face competition. So there are two perspectives right there.

And then what is best for the country as a whole is another perspective. Well, that went outside the [] in post 1.

But there are immigrants so skilled as to bring the potential to start new companies with them, increasing employment, so the more nuanced bit went inside the [] container

and then the last bit that it goes down to the individual and the situation.

And I know something about that because I was an expat living in England for a long time, and the lack of support structure (relatives) and difference in culture were both sources of insecurity. Rules which are generalizations don't even work at that level, it is down to the individual and immediate surroundings.

 

[Speedwell]

Dang these threads are hard to write. Everything seems so simple at first:

People with houses or investments in low cost apartments, and those in the service industries are going to want immigration,

while those competing for low cost rentals and low paid jobs will face competition. So there are two perspectives right there.

And then what is best for the country as a whole is another perspective. Well, that went outside the [] in post 1.

But there are immigrants so skilled as to bring the potential to start new companies with them, increasing employment, so the more nuanced bit went inside the [] container

and then the last bit that it goes down to the individual and the situation.

And I know something about that because I was an expat living in England for a long time, and the lack of support structure (relatives) and difference in culture were both sources of insecurity. Rules which are generalizations don't even work at that level, it is down to the individual and immediate surroundings.

You seem pretty intelligent and articulate; why are you interested in competing for low wage, low skill jobs?

 

[MorkandMindy]

The Republican party as led by Donald J. Trump, that's who. Right now we have a problem with asylum seekers from Central America, but ordinary illegal economic migration from Mexico is declining and could be all but eliminated by strict enforcement of laws against hiring illegal aliens which the Republicans decline to do, because the economic interests who support them want that cheap labor. Blaming it on "Democrats" who want "open borders" is just Kool-Aid.

At present the impression I have is that the Democratic Party is mainly supported by the middle class, teachers, government administrators and bureaucrats, people who work in clinics, pretty much everyone with big student loans, and the banks, which control the media.

And the Republican Party now contains an alliance of many very rich entreprenours with the low income category as well. That may seem a weird alliance but the rich alone just can't get enough votes on their own,

and alliance that started the problem back in the Reagan era was the rich and the middle class and the pensioners.

Well done Speedwell, there is a big problem, maybe it is the rich currently allied to the low income group might switch back to the middle class. um. ok, I've got to get out of the low income group.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You seem pretty intelligent and articulate; why are you interested in competing for low wage, low skill jobs?

You can build a good income on a low skilled low wage job, but you need a good plan, and patience. I have a six figure income and I'm still mowing lawns, mopping halls, washing windows, and cleaning toilets.

 

[MorkandMindy]

You seem pretty intelligent and articulate; why are you interested in competing for low wage, low skill jobs?

Thank you, that's quite a compliment.

Yes, I have to stop writing this thread, there are others who would probably do it better, and I have to get back to the electronics simulator I was running.

I got into the pickle I'm in as a result of some appallingly bad careers advice before I went to college and then I spent a decade trying to use the worthless degree for this or that and trying to get ahead in this company or that, and when I did get ahead the company closed and well, in the engineering field England is exactly the country not to be in because they've been getting rid of their engineering companies like they have the plague, so six companies I worked for closed while I was still in them.

So here I am 65 and with the time to retrain so that's what I'm doing.

But the main objective is to get my children who are engineers, ahead at the start of their careers when it matters the most, so I'm learning things that will supplement what they are learning.

 

[MorkandMindy]

You can build a good income on a low skilled low wage job, but you need a good plan, and patience. I have a six figure income and I'm still mowing lawns, mopping halls, washing windows, and cleaning toilets.

I think I see where I went wrong, I've been washing lawns and mowing toilets