Why is the day of worship controversial?

klutedavid · Apr 2, 2019

SAAN said:
Matthew 28 King James Version (KJV)
28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Matthew 28:1 states the Sabbath was ending and it was about to be the 1st day of the week, which would have been when it got dark a new day began, so assuming it was 6,7, or 8pm ish type time frame in the spring it got dark back then, is when the bible then states the resurrection took place. So while we dont know the exact time, like the crucifixion, we can probably assume the resurrection took place anywhere between 7-9pm ish time frame when it gets dark about an hour after the sun goes down, which would have been considered the first day of the week.

You should include the other resurrection accounts in the scripture, not just from one account.

Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

The Sabbath had already ended when Mary arrived at the tomb. Mark's account will not support your idea that Jesus could have risen on the Sabbath.

Luke 24
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

Once again we have Mary arriving at the tomb on the first day. We should also note that Mary arrived midway through the first day.

klutedavid · Apr 2, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Not sure how to win on this one. The alternative is to call Christ a liar. ???

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

There are multiple accounts of the timing of the resurrection in the scripture. I rely on the apostles statement below.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...

Paul says that Jesus rose on the third day not after the third day.

Saint Steven · Apr 2, 2019

klutedavid said:
There are multiple accounts of the timing of the resurrection in the scripture. I rely on the apostles statement below.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...

Paul says that Jesus rose on the third day not after the third day.

So... Not sure how to win on this one. Was Jesus a false prophet?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

klutedavid · Apr 2, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Not sure how to win on this one. The alternative is to call Christ a liar. ???

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The scripture does not allow a doctrine to be considered for the timing of the resurrection. Each account given in the scripture has a different timing, some say in three days, some say on the third day, and some say after three days.

Some of the accounts even have different timing within the one account. For example in Mark's account of the life of Jesus we have;

1) After three days, occurs once.
2) Three days later, occurs twice.
3) In three days, occurs twice.

It certainly appears that the timing of the resurrection is unknown even to the authors in the scripture. This cannot be considered to be a doctrinal point in Christianity.

klutedavid · Apr 2, 2019

Saint Steven said:
So... Not sure how to win on this one. Was Jesus a false prophet?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus used a figure of speech to describe the timing of the resurrection event, Jesus is not saying that He will rise on the fourth day.

ace of hearts · Apr 2, 2019

klutedavid said:
You should include the other resurrection accounts in the scripture, not just from one account.

Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

The Sabbath had already ended when Mary arrived at the tomb. Mark's account will not support your idea that Jesus could have risen on the Sabbath.

Luke 24
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

Once again we have Mary arriving at the tomb on the first day. We should also note that Mary arrived midway through the first day.

Not only did she arrive at the tomb after the sabbath, it was actually around sunrise.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Not sure how to win on this one. The alternative is to call Christ a liar. ???

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The way things were counted then any part of a day counts a s a day. The word day as used isn't a reference to a 24 hour period of time.

MariaJLM · Apr 3, 2019

One word: Judaizers.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Saint Steven said:
In Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the rule is that Sunday is the Sabbath. Both for rest and for worship. And this has spilled over into much of Protestantism. I wince when I hear this from the pulpit. My current Pastor made such a thing of it that I felt compelled to inform him of my position on the subject. Which he appreciated. I don't think I completely changed his mind, but it was good to let him know where I was at with it. No damage to the relationship over this. We weren't arguing, only discussing.

You're very fortunate there was no damage.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Why is the day of worship controversial?

I think the controversy is created by those that claim a certain day is God's day of worship/rest, thus discrediting every other day. Although, those who claim Sunday don't seem to discredit other days with the same ferocity as those who claim the seventh day Sabbath.

We are free to worship/rest on any day we choose. IMHO
But if you call your day "God's holy day", what does that say about every other day?

That being said, I agree that the Sabbath is the seventh day. I do not call Sunday the Sabbath. I believe the Sabbath was given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Were you a slave in Egypt?

Deuteronomy 5:15
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

The misuse of the word "sabbath" creates the opening for argument. English is a very sloppy lose language. The problem mainly exists because most people base what they believe on what so and so said instead of the Scripture. I've heard preachers ask people (sheeple) to bring their Bible to church. I wonder what for since they say something else in opposition to Scripture.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Jonaitis said:
The Lord's Supper was instituted during the Passover meal, but no where does it say it replaced it. They are different. Let me guess, you believe in Replacement Theology?

No I don't believe in replacement theology. Why is it Christians don't observe the Passover prescribed for Jews?

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

klutedavid said:
1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Yes and only once.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Inferences from the New Testament, like when Jews attended the synagogues on the Sabbath. In practicing the same thing on the first day among Christians, the "assumption" is there.

It doesn't matter, you are stuck from wanting to see further.

Well I read your personal opinion. I don't see any support as requested.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Disagree if you want, I don't need to debate it.

I confess the first day (Lord's day) as the Christian Sabbath, but I personally see no problem if the Christian has their conviction of honoring the seventh day. What troubles me is a denial of the fourth commandment (and creation ordinance) as applicable today. It is a moral truth that we are to set apart one day from seven for God. The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing to us, but many who are contentious about it don't seem to look at it that way as if it were a burden.

Here's why I've no problem with disregarding the law -

Jer 31:31-33
LK 22:20
JN 5:24
JN 15:10
Rom 7:6
JN 3:23

If anyone needs more I can provide them.

Jonaitis · Apr 3, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Well I read your personal opinion. I don't see any support as requested.

It is a debate not worth beating to death, so I am steering away from this thread.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Jonaitis said:
OT Jews before Christ celebrated the Lord's Supper? I can't prove that, sorry.

SDA may make it a salvific issue, but Protestants don't.

I asked about Jews in the synagogue celebrating the Lord's Supper. No one did prior to its institution at the last Passover event Jesus had with His disciples. So you really by-passed the question.

ace of hearts · Apr 3, 2019

Jonaitis said:
It is a debate not worth beating to death, so I am steering away from this thread.

OK but that's avoidance and not answering a question. I understand why.

Jonaitis · Apr 3, 2019

ace of hearts said:
OK but that's avoidance and not answering a question. I understand why.

I can argue my case until my face turns blue, your mind won't change apparently.

ace of hearts · Apr 4, 2019

Jonaitis said:
I can argue my case until my face turns blue, your mind won't change apparently.

Then the reality is you're trying to convert Christians to a form of Judaism.

Jonaitis · Apr 4, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Then the reality is you're trying to convert Christians to a form of Judaism.

That's a high and false accusation for nothing.

Why is the day of worship controversial?

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