Why is the day of worship controversial?

[ace of hearts]

You should not read a single passage out of CONTEXT of what is written. Prayerfully read the passage in context of the rest of the scriptures seeking God's guidence and tell me what you think the chapter and scriptures are saying?

You have the opportunity to prove it.

 

[ace of hearts]

Now brother David. That is not true at all. Please show me where God's 10 commandments mention CIRCUMCISION. You mix up God's shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with GOD's eternal law that gives us the KNOWLDEGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. As a result we have no knowledge of what sin is. If we do not have a knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation then we are lost because we are still in our sins.

Can you see the error in your argument here brother? It denies the Word of God. As shown earlier. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who knowingly do so are not following God.

So your claim circumcision isn't part of the law. There's no division of the law for the Jew. Circumcision is a command of the law.

 

[ace of hearts]

Actually I have mainly post NEW TESTAMENT passages but draw back to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures to show the origin of what is in the NEW TESTAMENT. Many do not know what the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures mean because they do not know the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures they are referring to.

Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD TESTAMENT. In fact the bible of JESUS and the APOSTLES was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. CIRCUMCISION is not one of the 10 Commandments. It was a SHADOW law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

You mix up your SHADOW laws from God's eternal LAW that give us the KNOWLEDGE GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to?

Can you see your error here brother?

You need to read my whole post. They're relative short compared to your. So it shouldn't be that hard.

 

[ace of hearts]

Until you read it. "This IS the New Covenant... I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33

BTW I love it that you have setup my perfect slam dunk on that point about 100 times by now on this section of the board. I wish I could send you a gift or something. It is very nice of you to keep doing that. God bless you.



CF blessings or real ones??

You're a real work of art. Do either one. Of course I'm referring to your CF blessings.

 

[ace of hearts]

Actually I am not C&P I am writing much on the fly. I doubt you read it though as you do not respond to the posts and scriptures that have only been provided in love as a help to you. Although my prayer is that you will prayerfully consider the scriptures provided.

So many of your post are so close together this is difficult to believe especially when I recognize exact wording.

 

[ace of hearts]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping



Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.



The text you reference only speaks about Passover and circumcision ... nothing at all in it about gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath.

By contrast - the texts I point to - do reference gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath. and we see them not only in Isaiah 56 but also in the NT - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- Sabbath after Sabbath... gentiles, not Jews



Isaiah 56 does not say the foreigner lives in Israel. Those gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 were not in Israel, were not circumcised, were not Jews.



You are conflating two different things.

1. The liturgy of worship - before the cross vs after (no matter if the one worshiping is a Jew or gentile)
2. the requirement of a gentile worshiper to ALSO become a circumcised Jew IF they want to also observe the Passover.

Details matter.

Animal sacrifices needed before the cross -- no matter if one was Jew or gentile.

Gentiles needed to be circumcised if they wanted to go to the temple and keep Passover -- no matter if it was before the cross or after.

But none of those gentiles in Acts 13, `17, 18 worshiping in the synagogues every Sabbath are Jews - rather they are called "God fearing gentiles" -- they keep Sabbath but they are not circumcised Jews.

Bible details matter. Nice try though.



On the contrary - "god fearing gentiles"

"God-fearers (Greek: φοβούμενος τὸν Θεόν, Phoboumenos ton Theon) or God-worshipers (Greek: θεοσεβής, Theosebes) were a numerous class of gentile sympathizers to Hellenistic Judaism, which observed certain Jewish religious rites and traditions without becoming full converts to Judaism."

Full converts were not called gentiles and could enter the temple.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it




A Jew could not become a priest either - they had to be Levites and in fact descendant from Aaron.

So either the law is changed which you deny or Jesus is a sinner by Hebrews 7. You can't have both.

 

[ace of hearts]

made another post with more detailed info

Why is the day of worship controversial?


It's in several versions you can compare them here if you like. www.biblehub.com

I'm a fan of that site. If you check the interlinear, you'll see I posted truth.

I guess it really doesn't matter if one calls it a new covenant or a better covenant as long as the 10 are not dismissed, is really the point. Better covenant makes more sense to me ... because that makes the big 10 part still standing from the "original" covenant. The entire OT covenant was not completely made irrelevant ... or not needed .... it was the ceremonial/sacrificial part that was made irrelevant or not needed because of Jesus.

God Bless.

If it's a new covenant not according to the previous covenant containing the famous 10, indeed they're dismissed as Gal 3 says the school teacher is no longer employed.

 

[eleos1954]

I'm a fan of that site. If you check the interlinear, you'll see I posted truth.If it's a new covenant not according to the previous covenant containing the famous 10, indeed they're dismissed as Gal 3 says the school teacher is no longer employed.

well ... ok then .... guess hey ... we can murder, covet, lie, steal, commit adultery as much as we want and hey as long as we believe Jesus is ... no problem? ;o)

Why do we have many NT verses where Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments?

Why do we have this?

Matthew 5

The Fulfillment of the Law

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

So either the law is changed which you deny or Jesus is a sinner by Hebrews 7. You can't have both.

Hint: Hebrews 7 does not say Jesus is a sinner.

Heb 8
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Hebrews 7 makes the case that Jesus is not a priest like the Levitical priest.. but rather is a priest according to the order of Melchizedek who was not a descendant of Aaron, or Levi or Jacob or Isaac nor even a descendant of Abraham -- yet "still" a priest. And Melchizedek is a "type" of Christ in that no data is recorded about his beginning or end of life (as the type) - just as God the Son has no beginning and no end in real life.

Hebrews 7 says that the law regarding priesthood is changed -- it does not say "it is ok to take God's name in vain now that Christ is high priest" -- as we all know.

In fact "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where the commandments of God are found in that LAW in which the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2. No wonder then Paul's teaching is "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You need to read my whole post. They're relative short compared to your. So it shouldn't be that hard.

I do read all your posts. That is why I respond to them section by section and scripture by scripture with God's WORD showing the context you leave out. Correct it is not hard.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is Joshua 8:32 God's Word and true?

Absolutely as is the rest of the chapter that provides context to the scripture. Already addressed your only repeating yourself now brother. Do you have anything else to add or did you wish to respond to and address the previous post to you on this topic?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You have the opportunity to prove it.

Why should I need to? Joshua 8 supports your view and argument how?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You use this against us and refuse to admit your own guilt. I'm still waiting for your discussion and testimony concerning Ex 20:8-11.

It is God's WORD. I am not using it against anyone. It is God's WORD not mine. What did you wish to discuss about EXOCUS 20:8-11? I have been sharing my testimony with the scriptures all through these many thread?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So your claim circumcision isn't part of the law. There's no division of the law for the Jew. Circumcision is a command of the law.

Well that has no truth in it brother. Please show where CIRCUMCISION is a requirement in any one of God's 10 Commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17? You mix up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL *SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There's no such command in the NT.

Well that is not true brother. The 10 commandments were all given in the OLD TESTAMENT. Everyone of them is repeated in the NEW TESTAMENT.

Scripture support here click me 1 and here click me 2.

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you and there is a lot of it in the linked posts above.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[BobRyan]

If it's a new covenant not according to the previous covenant

then it is a different agreement but it references the same law in both cases.

The agreement is not the same.

The LAW is the same. it is the one Jeremiah and his readers knew about "this IS the NEW Covenant.. I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33

So then it is STILL a sin to take God's name in vain. Even under the NEW Covenant.

And that is a Bible detail SO obvious that BOTH the Sunday and Bible Sabbath groups agree on that point regarding the TEN Commandments included in the moral law of God written on the heart.

======================================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm a fan of that site. If you check the interlinear, you'll see I posted truth.If it's a new covenant not according to the previous covenant containing the famous 10, indeed they're dismissed as Gal 3 says the school teacher is no longer employed.

LOL! So the same debate rages on. Why am I not surprised?! I do not understand why it is so hard to understand the difference between the laws of Moses and the Law of God---God made a clear distinction between the 2.
To begin with--understand the sanctuary--
I assume everyone knows that it is a replica of the one that is in heaven. The Ark itself is a copy of the very throne of God. There, He sits between the 2 covering cherubs. Lucifer used to be one. It contained the Mercy Seat. It contained one thing, commanded by God Himself, the 2 tables of stone written by God. A pot of gold containing manna, Aaron's rod that budded, were added later. In Exodus and in Revelation the ark is called the ark of the testimony.
Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Everything about the sanctuary services pointed to Jesus.
Exo_24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Exo_31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The law of Moses was written by Moses on parchment as dictated by God, the law of God was written by God Himself on Tables of Stone. They were kept in separate places, only the law of God was in the Ark. As it is in the Heavenly Ark, upon which God sits.

It is the law of God that is written in our hearts now. God does not write the law of Moses in our hearts, only His. Whether in our hearts or on stone--they are written--not done away with. Only the law of Moses is done away with -- for Jesus is now our Sacrificial Lamb and our High Priest.

 

[ace of hearts]

well ... ok then .... guess hey ... we can murder, covet, lie, steal, commit adultery as much as we want and hey as long as we believe Jesus is ... no problem? ;o)

Why are you attempting to foist this off on me? Do you have me saying that anywhere? Do you have me promoting that anywhere? Please quote it with reference. The law was given only to Israel. See Deut 5:1-3.

Can you explain how being in compliance with Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. and do any of the things you listed above? Maybe you want another committing adultery with you wife. Maybe you enjoy being lied to. Maybe you enjoy others taking your property. Do you really want someone to kill a member of your family? But hey many non religious people don't want that either. So are they keeping the law? Doesn't that make them Christian by your standards? I think you get the idea. Keeping the law has nothing to do with Christianity.

Why do we have many NT verses where Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments?

I have a passage I want you to explain -

Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Why do we have this?

Matthew 5

The Fulfillment of the Law

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Maybe you could explain this passage too -

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Perhaps you could also explain this one too -

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Remember you support the idea all things aren't fulfilled and the law can't change.

 

[ace of hearts]

Hint: Hebrews 7 does not say Jesus is a sinner.

I see. Then it must be the law that changed.[/quote]
Heb 8
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.[/quote]I see. You promote both the law can't change and the law has indeed changed. Jesus can't be a priest because He's from the tribe of Judah. So get your act together.

Hebrews 7 makes the case that Jesus is not a priest like the Levitical priest.. but rather is a priest according to the order of Melchizedek who was not a descendant of Aaron, or Levi or Jacob or Isaac nor even a descendant of Abraham -- yet "still" a priest. And Melchizedek is a "type" of Christ in that no data is recorded about his beginning or end of life (as the type) - just as God the Son has no beginning and no end in real life.

Then since Jesus isn't a priest according to the law and He is our Priest, how can the law be a factor in our relationship with God? There is no Levitical priesthood today. If there are tell us so we can also go to them.

Hebrews 7 says that the law regarding priesthood is changed -- it does not say "it is ok to take God's name in vain now that Christ is high priest" -- as we all know.

But no jot or titles of the law can change. Remember Mat 5?

In fact "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where the commandments of God are found in that LAW in which the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2. No wonder then Paul's teaching is "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

If keeping the famous 10 are what matters, how can Paul say we are now delivered from the law by referencing the 10th commandment?

 

[ace of hearts]

Absolutely as is the rest of the chapter that provides context to the scripture. Already addressed your only repeating yourself now brother. Do you have anything else to add or did you wish to respond to and address the previous post to you on this topic?

The question or statement was presented by Sara about the famous 10 being the law of Moses. So I presented Joshua 8:32 in which the Law of Moses is written on stone. Do you have something saying anything besides the famous 10 were written on stone? I want to see it.

No you make a claim that is out of context. IOW isn't true. Prove it. You claim you can with the rest of the chapter. Let's see it.