Why is scripture so fuzzy about heaven and hell?

[Jamdoc]

God is going to save everyone. If you aren't only using Christ for fire insurance, then you will get precisely what you have been working towards... not burning in hell for all eternity.... because that was never going to happen anyway.

That's not what Jesus warned about in scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

God is going to save everyone. If you aren't only using Christ for fire insurance, then you will get precisely what you have been working towards... not burning in hell for all eternity.... because that was never going to happen anyway.

I think not!
Twenty two categories of unrighteous people who have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that
the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that [no wrongdoer] no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

Psalms 95:10-11
(10) Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
(11) Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Hebrews 3:11-14
(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)[Ps 95:11]
(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
(14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Water and Fire]

That's not what Jesus warned about in scripture.

Yes it is, you just haven't understood it.

 

[atpollard]

All sides were to blame

I think the overwhelming majority of the blame goes to the leaders in Rome that invited Luther to discuss his ‘thesis’ and then attempted to assassinate him rather than talk.

However anytime the RCC is interested in discarding the dross that it has added to what Jesus and the Apostles taught, the Church will take a giant step closer to unification. Instead the movement is on to elevate the Queen of Heaven to Co-Redemptrix. The Bible says there is only one Redeemer … get with the program.

 

[Jamdoc]

Yes it is, you just haven't understood it.

"Depart from me, ye accursed, into everlasting fire" doesn't sound like God winks at sin and is going to save everyone regardless of their belief.

 

[Water and Fire]

"Depart from me, ye accursed, into everlasting fire" doesn't sound like God winks at sin and is going to save everyone regardless of their belief.

You do realize, those "accursed" that are being described here, are those that he says "I never knew you" to, right? What does he mean by "I never knew you"?


Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


The group that he is saying that are accursed, are those he never foreknew, because they were not predestined to be God's elect, and thus, not in the first resurrection, and not kings and priests.

Look here:


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Those chosen from the foundation of the world, are God's elect. They are the first fruits. They are special to God, and they will reign with him, because they are going to be his kings and priests, which he already decided upon, from the foundation of the world.
If you don't believe what the scriptures say about God choosing who will be in the first resurrection, then don't quote that scripture at me.

 

[Jamdoc]

You do realize, those "accursed" that are being described here, are those that he says "I never knew you" to, right? What does he mean by "I never knew you"?


Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


The group that he is saying that are accursed, are those he never foreknew, because they were not predestined to be God's elect, and thus, not in the first resurrection, and not kings and priests.

Look here:


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Those chosen from the foundation of the world, are God's elect. They are the first fruits. They are special to God, and they will reign with him, because they are going to be his kings and priests, which he already decided upon, from the foundation of the world.
If you don't believe what the scriptures say about God choosing who will be in the first resurrection, then don't quote that scripture at me.

In no terms is that all inclusive "everyone" as you were claiming.
Yes there is an elect, and yes God knew who would be elect before they even existed.
But that is not everyone.

It is overall, a minority of all the people who have ever, or will ever, exist. It will be a vast multitude beyond counting, over hundreds of millions, probably billions, but it will still be "few" compared to the total number of people who will ever exist.

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Cockcrow]

God is going to save everyone. If you aren't only using Christ for fire insurance, then you will get precisely what you have been working towards... not burning in hell for all eternity.... because that was never going to happen anyway.

if Jesus died for everybody then he failed because if that were true then most people that Jesus would have died for still end up in Hell. This is such a wicked false God that people have made up and I can see why people are confused because they believe in that horrible false gospel of Universalism that falsely states Jesus died so everyone in the whole world is now automatically saved. That is not what Jesus taught at all, completely unbiblical.

the reality is that Jesus our Lord and savior's role and job all along was to die on the cross for the sins of his sheep/elect/children and this fact is affirmed over and over all throughout the New Testament, Jesus himself preached that many will go to Hell, few saved. (Luke 13:23-24) Jesus never said that every single person is saved, the truth is that Jesus on the cross fully accomplished salvation and eternal life for his people, he didn't fail like Universalists say, he defeated death and now his people will live with him for eternity. while the wicked will justly be sent to Hell and eternal punishment for all eternity. God is love, Holy, Just, and Righteous.

verses from Gods word that proves Eternal torment:
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Water and Fire]

In no terms is that all inclusive "everyone" as you were claiming.
Yes there is an elect, and yes God knew who would be elect before they even existed.
But that is not everyone.

It is overall, a minority of all the people who have ever, or will ever, exist. It will be a vast multitude beyond counting, over hundreds of millions, probably billions, but it will still be "few" compared to the total number of people who will ever exist.

Matthew 7

So, what you are saying is, God decided in advance, who would burn in hell for all eternity? That sounds like Calvinism, to me.

You do know that the Elect are the First Fruits, right?
Of course you understand that the First Fruits are extra special to God right?

Oh, what's this?


Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.


I'm sorry, but the pagan doctrine of eternal punishment, makes a complete mockery of scripture. There are only two resurrections.
They do not bring in the First Fruits of the harvest and then trash the rest of the harvest.... that goes completely against scripture!

 

[Water and Fire]

if Jesus died for everybody then he failed because if that were true then most people that Jesus would have died for still end up in Hell. This is such a wicked false God that people have made up and I can see why people are confused because they believe in that horrible false gospel of Universalism that falsely states Jesus died so everyone in the whole world is now saved. That is not what Jesus taught at all, completely unbiblical.

the reality is that Jesus our Lord and savior's role and job all along was to die on the cross for the sins of his sheep/elect/children and this fact is affirmed over and over all throughout the New Testament, Jesus himself preached that many will go to Hell, few saved. Jesus never said that every single person is saved, the truth is that Jesus on the cross fully accomplished salvation and eternal life for his people, he didn't fail like Universalists say, he defeated death and now his people will live with him for eternity. while the wicked will justly be sent to Hell and eternal punishment for all eternity. God is love, Holy, Just, and Righteous.

verses from Gods word that proves Eternal torment:
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


This is a parable, and the burning is not literal, it is spiritual... and what happens when you burn someone spiritually?


Mat 11:20 Then He began to reproach the cities in which most of His powerful acts had occurred, for they did not repent.
Mat 11:21 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the powerful acts which have taken place in you had happened in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.


Sackcloth and ashes is about repentance. When things are burned, they are reduced to ashes.

 

[Der Alte]

* * *
This is a parable, and the burning is not literal, it is spiritual... and what happens when you burn someone spiritually?
Mat 11:20 Then He began to reproach the cities in which most of His powerful acts had occurred, for they did not repent.
Mat 11:21 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the powerful acts which have taken place in you had happened in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Sackcloth and ashes is about repentance. When things are burned, they are reduced to ashes.

Exodus 3:1-5
(1) Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.
(2) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
(3) And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
(4) And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
(5) And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Daniel 3:19-27
(19) Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.
(20) And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
(21) Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
(22) Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
(23) And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
(24) Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
(25) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
(26) Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
(27) And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

 

[Jamdoc]

So, what you are saying is, God decided in advance, who would burn in hell for all eternity? That sounds like Calvinism, to me.

You do know that the Elect are the First Fruits, right?
Of course you understand that the First Fruits are extra special to God right?

Oh, what's this?


Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.


I'm sorry, but the pagan doctrine of eternal punishment, makes a complete mockery of scripture. There are only two resurrections.
They do not bring in the First Fruits of the harvest and then trash the rest of the harvest.... that goes completely against scripture!

A universalist saying someone else is going against scripture?

That's rich.

The bible is filled with warnings against hell.
Universalism makes all of those warnings meaningless.

The first resurrection is those in Christ. The second resurrection is everyone else.... but they go to the Great White Throne Judgement.
and those not in Christ?
Go to the second death, the lake of fire.

What you teach, that nobody goes to the lake of fire, that's unscriptural.
That's not just glossing over scripture it's blatantly flying in its face.

as much as I disagree with annihilationism, I can at least admit it has fewer direct contradictions with scripture, though they take liberty and stretch scripture to mean what they want it to (temporal punishment rather than eternal).
But universalists?
argue against scripture.

 

[Water and Fire]

A universalist saying someone else is going against scripture?

That's rich.

The bible is filled with warnings against hell.
Universalism makes all of those warnings meaningless.

The first resurrection is those in Christ. The second resurrection is everyone else.... but they go to the Great White Throne Judgement.
and those not in Christ?
Go to the second death, the lake of fire.

What you teach, that nobody goes to the lake of fire, that's unscriptural.
That's not just glossing over scripture it's blatantly flying in its face.

as much as I disagree with annihilationism, I can at least admit it has fewer direct contradictions with scripture, though they take liberty and stretch scripture to mean what they want it to (temporal punishment rather than eternal).
But universalists?
argue against scripture.

I never said nobody goes to the lake of fire, but your understanding of what the lake of fire is, is extremely wanting.

 

[Jamdoc]

I never said nobody goes to the lake of fire, but you understanding of what the lake of fire is, is extremely wanting.

Revelation 20

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It's a place of eternal torment
what else is wanting of our understanding of it?

 

[Saint Steven]

if Jesus died for everybody then he failed because if that were true then most people that Jesus would have died for still end up in Hell. This is such a wicked false God that people have made up and I can see why people are confused because they believe in that horrible false gospel of Universalism that falsely states Jesus died so everyone in the whole world is now automatically saved. That is not what Jesus taught at all, completely unbiblical.

Not biblical?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[Jamdoc]

Not biblical?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Yeah, it's salvation AVAILABLE for all people
if they will believe on Him.
You have to accept the gift.

 

[Cockcrow]

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


This is a parable, and the burning is not literal, it is spiritual... and what happens when you burn someone spiritually?


Mat 11:20 Then He began to reproach the cities in which most of His powerful acts had occurred, for they did not repent.
Mat 11:21 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the powerful acts which have taken place in you had happened in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.


Sackcloth and ashes is about repentance. When things are burned, they are reduced to ashes.

Jesus taught of a real literal burning hell, not some spiritual place of annihilation.Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Now some will come and say that "destroy both soul and body in hell" means that they will cease to exist or just get annihilated instantly, however we see in the rest of scripture verses where Jesus Christ clearly warns of a literal hell, and makes it clear that ceasing to exist is not what happens after death. Hell is a real literal place. Ok let's look at some scriptures

Jesus clearly warns in Mark 9:47-48 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

now the Book of Revelation is clear that in Hell there is no rest day nor night, now you tell me how that can be if you just burn up and cease to exist at death? how would the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever if they are just one time obliterated after death? There is no indication by Jesus or anyone in the Bible that Hell isn't a real literal place, or it is just some annihilation place where people go and burn up once and that's it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yeah, it's salvation AVAILABLE for all people
if they will believe on Him.
You have to accept the gift.

Did Jesus succeed or fail his mission?

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[Water and Fire]

Jesus taught of a real literal burning hell, not some spiritual place of annihilation.Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Now some will come and say that "destroy both soul and body in hell" means that they will cease to exist or just get annihilated instantly, however we see in the rest of scripture verses where Jesus Christ clearly warns of a literal hell, and makes it clear that ceasing to exist is not what happens after death. Hell is a real literal place. Ok let's look at some scriptures

Jesus clearly warns in Mark 9:47-48 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

now the Book of Revelation is clear that in Hell there is no rest day nor night, now you tell me how that can be if you just burn up and cease to exist at death? how would the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever if they are just one time obliterated after death? There is no indication by Jesus or anyone in the Bible that Hell isn't a real literal place, or it is just some annihilation place where people go and burn up once and that's it.

All Christ's words are spiritual. The scriptures are "spiritually discerned" not literally discerned.


1Co 2:13 Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Saint Steven]

You have to accept the gift.

It's not about us. Never was.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.