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Why is scripture so fuzzy about heaven and hell?

Hmm

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You argue this based on 1-2 supposed scholars opinions...as if the translators of the Bibles that read "everlasting" or "eternal" are not scholars themselves. Why should those 1-2 scholars opinions take precedence over the vast, vast, majority of scholars both modern and historic, religious and secular?

I find you impossible to discuss anything with because you're never prepared to substantiate your claims when asked.

I'll make you an offer I'm sure you can refuse. I'll continue this if you provide a credible source for your claim that the "vast, vast majority" of scholars ancient and modern agree with you about "aionios" but not otherwise.
 
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Fervent

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I find you impossible to discuss anything with because you're never prepared to substantiate your claims.

I'll make you an offer I'm sure you can refuse. I'll continue this if you provide a credible source for your claim that the "vast, vast majority" of scholars ancient and modern agree with you about "aionios" but not otherwise.
The fact that most Bible translations translate it that way is substantiation enough. Who do you think translates the Bibles?
 
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Fervent

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As I said... End of conversation.
Mhm, no loss because you've shown a history of just ignoring everything contrary and persisting in what you want to believe. If it weren't an appropriate translation, it would be caught by most Bible translators. Which are teams of scholars.
 
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Der Alte

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You argue this based on 1-2 supposed scholars opinions...as if the translators of the Bibles that read "everlasting" or "eternal" are not scholars themselves. Why should those 1-2 scholars opinions take precedence over the vast, vast, majority of scholars both modern and historic, religious and secular?
You make a very good point. One that I have been arguing for many moons here at CF. No credible answer has been forthcoming.
Here is a link you might appreciate. It is to the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] @ Internet Archives. Can be read online or downloaded. Free.
When I quote from the EOB I usually preface my quote with this.

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Orthodox church since its inception 2000 years +/- ago. Who better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB know the correct meaning of the Greek in the NT?
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


 
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Jamdoc

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No. It's a reference to Gehenna not the fictious Dante's hell you believe in. Gehenna was a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem where the bodies of criminals were also put out. The gnashing of teeth may be a reference to the feral dogs that survived there by eating the disposed waste food and no doubt the bodies. The wailing, I don't know. Perhaps the grieving relatives and friends of the dead criminals.

But who knows? Maybe you're right and it's all caused by Jesus torturing people.

Uh.. no.. not at all. the wailing and gnashing of teeth is not dogs in a graveyard...

that stretching makes gumby blush.
 
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Hmm

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Uh.. no.. not at all. the wailing and gnashing of teeth is not dogs in a graveyard...

that stretching makes gumby blush.

Okay, it's Jesus then. Whatever makes you happy.
 
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earthmover

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Yeah and I think that people who say "sure I'd be a Christian even without salvation and the promise of eternal life and restoration of all creation" may be in that kind of camp, and maybe aren't denying themselves and taking up their cross. Jesus didn't promise a life in this world of blessings He promised tribulation and burdens and self denial.... BUT.. that great would be their reward in heaven and in the resurrection.

although He was definitely fuzzy about what those rewards would be, aside from eternal life itself.
Just that we would be with Him, we would have fullness of joy, and that He is preparing a place for us.

Jesus was NOT fuzzy however, about punishment. There's no fuzziness in Jesus' teaching about eternal conscious torment.
He was unambiguously not promoting universalism, straight is the gate and narrow is the way, He IS the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him. He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
He was unambiguously teaching that it would be suffering. Wailing and gnashing of teeth. In hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, tormented in this flame.
and He was unambiguous that it would be forever, where the worm dies not and the fire is never quenched, depart into everlasting fire prepared for Satan and his angels.
Everlasting, never quenched. Fire, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Jesus was as fire and brimstone of a preacher as they come.

Paul was a softy compared to Jesus on how he preached, and Paul was still no Joel Osteen. Paul talked about sin even if he didn't talk about hell.


We do it because sin is pleasurable only for a season, but then brings death and destruction, and eternally at that. What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

We do it because Jesus promises that great is our reward in heaven.... not this world. In this world we have tribulation.

Don't blame Paul, all he did was write or preach what Jesus told him to. Jesus as GOD is the Author of the entire Bible all 66 books of it with 40 writers that put His Words down on paper.

Earthmover
 
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Jamdoc

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Don't blame Paul, all he did was write or preach what Jesus told him to. Jesus as GOD is the Author of the entire Bible all 66 books of it with 40 writers that put His Words down on paper.

Earthmover

I wasn't intending to blame Paul or anything, but just to make a contrast of just how much of a Firebrand the meek and self sacrificing Jesus was.
People often have an image of Jesus as just all positivity and forgiveness, never judgement.
They forget Jesus the fire and brimstone preacher
and they many times forget Jesus the divine warrior destroying the wicked and soaking his vestments in their blood as He treads the winepress of the wrath of God. (Isaiah 63, Revelation 14, Revelation 19, no it's not "symbolic of the blood He shed for us" It's the blood of the enemies of God)
Much less Jesus the judge of the quick and the dead.
 
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earthmover

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I wasn't intending to blame Paul or anything, but just to make a contrast of just how much of a Firebrand the meek and self sacrificing Jesus was.
People often have an image of Jesus as just all positivity and forgiveness, never judgement.
They forget Jesus the fire and brimstone preacher
and they many times forget Jesus the divine warrior destroying the wicked and soaking his vestments in their blood as He treads the winepress of the wrath of God. (Isaiah 63, Revelation 14, Revelation 19, no it's not "symbolic of the blood He shed for us" It's the blood of the enemies of God)
Much less Jesus the judge of the quick and the dead.
Not counting that Jesus spoke of HELL in the NT more than He did Heaven.

earthmover
 
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Hmm

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Not counting that Jesus spoke of HELL in the NT more than He did Heaven.

earthmover

I'd like to see some evidence for that. I suspect that anyone making that claim would be reading hell into any and every possible passage in the Bible.

Which begs the question Why would anyone want to turn the Good News into a "gospel" of fear and damnation?
 
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Cockcrow

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Most of the things he was paraphrasing from Jesus in the gospels, or comes from Revelation. Jesus really did describe hell as an unquenchable fire where your "worm dieth not", and Jesus did use the terms "everlasting fire". John did write that the angel said that the people would suffer day and night with no rest.
Jesus was unambiguous about Hell being everlasting suffering and fire and darkness were the main descriptors he used for it.
The only thing not actually coming from the bible was the idea of people thinking about all the sins they did.
That's an elaboration, but a popular one.
But I'm not sure about that one because I can say when you're in a lot of pain you really can't think about things clearly, all you can think about is ... I'm in pain, and I will do anything to make the pain stop. Emotions replace rational thought. Nobody gets in a nasty bike accident with broken bones and while they're screaming waiting for help they're not thinking "oh if only I had not tried to show off riding with no hands jumping off that short staircase!" No, that's all done, all they think is how much pain they're in and how much they need help to not be in pain.
Hell is not prison where you stew in a cell and "think about what you did". Hell is suffering, and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth (sadness, pain, and anger, emotional responses, not logical responss)

but anyway..
on the thread topic I don't see the bible being ambiguous about hell at all
heaven I can understand it as being ambiguous, Jesus had a lot of descriptions of things like banquets, rest, joy, but it was always in terms of "the kingdom of heaven is like..."

Meaning that it is not exactly that.. but Jesus is trying to put into terms that people can understand.
But Jesus never said "hell is like..."
Jesus just said "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire."
Abraham told the Rich man to remember that he had his good things on Earth while Lazarus had bad things (Luke 16:25) the Rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his brothers about the place of torment called Hell (Luke 16:27-28) , so it is clear that those in Hell will be conscious and full have memory of their time on Earth, their relatives.

And at the Great White throne Judgement day the Bible says the books were opened and the dead were judged according their works (Revelation 20:12) this will not be a judgement according to salvation, as those at this judgement are condemned already, and no good works can earn your salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:16) all of their thoughts, actions will be judged, the Bible says they will give an account for every idle word they spoke (Matthew 12:36) the three persons of the Trinity who are one bear record (1 John 5:7 KJV) you said thinking about their sins is not biblical, yet clearly it is, me talking about the memory torment doesn't mean that I was saying there would be no physical torment as well the physical torments that will happen in Hell which I well explained in detail.

The elect will be judged at different judgement called the Judgement seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) which will not be about their salvation as they are already saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) rather it will be about receiving their rewards based on good works. (1 Corinthians 9:4-27, 2 Timothy 2:5) and God will forgive them for all their sins and remember them no more (Hebrews 8:12, Isaiah 43:25, Micah 7:18, Hebrews 10:17, Romans 1:8, John 5:25, John 3:18) as Christ death on the Cross was sufficient for all of their sins (Hebrews 10:10)
 
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Jamdoc

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Abraham told the Rich man to remember that he had his good things on Earth while Lazarus had bad things (Luke 16:25) the Rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his brothers about the place of torment called Hell (Luke 16:27-28) , so it is clear that those in Hell will be conscious and full have memory of their time on Earth, their relatives.

And at the Great White throne Judgement day the Bible says the books were opened and the dead were judged according their works (Revelation 20:12) this will not be a judgement according to salvation, as those at this judgement are condemned already, and no good works can earn your salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:16) all of their thoughts, actions will be judged, the Bible says they will give an account for every idle word they spoke (Matthew 12:36) the three persons of the Trinity who are one bear record (1 John 5:7 KJV) you said thinking about their sins is not biblical, yet clearly it is, me talking about the memory torment doesn't mean that I was saying there would be no physical torment as well the physical torments that will happen in Hell which I well explained in detail.

The elect will be judged at different judgement called the Judgement seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) which will not be about their salvation as they are already saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) rather it will be about receiving their rewards based on good works. (1 Corinthians 9:4-27, 2 Timothy 2:5) and God will forgive them for all their sins and remember them no more (Hebrews 8:12, Isaiah 43:25, Micah 7:18, Hebrews 10:17, Romans 1:8, John 5:25, John 3:18) as Christ death on the Cross was sufficient for all of their sins (Hebrews 10:10)

at the GWT yes, they'll think about their sins
but I think if they're truly suffering as much as Jesus says they will.. they won't really be able to make coherent thoughts like that anymore.
I mean, even through earthly pains, having worked in the medical field, I've seen people in enough pain that they can no longer think rationally at all.
now.. in the holding place, in the current Sheol, if the man was able to make clear thoughts, he may have been in torment, but not the same as the lake of fire where all he'll be able to do is wail and gnash his teeth.
 
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Hmm

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Abraham told the Rich man to remember that he had his good things on Earth while Lazarus had bad things (Luke 16:25) the Rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his brothers about the place of torment called Hell (Luke 16:27-28) , so it is clear that those in Hell will be conscious and full have memory of their time on Earth, their relatives.

You raise too many points to deal with in one post so I'll just address this first one.

The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is parable and not meant to be taken literally. It's a fictional story that Jesus used to make a theological point and the story's internal world should not be read as corresponding point by point with how we will experience the next life.

It's also not about hell as you understand hell to be. It explicitly says that it is about as Hades and this is the place where the dead temporarily reside while they await the Resurrection and the Day of Judgement.

The Bible also says that Hades will be overthrown and destroyed at that time. So whatever this parable is saying about our future experience of this Hades, the Bible makes it very clear that this is only ever a temporary situation that is.ultimately replaced with something better and more glorious.
 
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Presumably God would have foreseen that the vagueness in the Bible about heaven and hell would lead to different interpretations and the arguments we see today about Infernalism, Annihalism and Universalism.

Did He have a good reason for keeping things so undefined?

Mark 4:11-12 seems to suggest so when it talks about why Jesus used parables:

11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything comes in parables, 12 in order that
‘they may indeed look but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand;
so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’ ”
Is it a deliberate ploy intended to make us reflect on these things as honestly as we can?

Or was it because that Jesus didn't want us to think too much about heaven and hell but instead to focus on living a Godly life while on earth?

Would it have been impossible for Him to have been clearer because our natural fear of the unknown, of "that undiscovered country from whose bourne no traveler returns" (Shakespeare), would have led us to interpret His words to conjure up the infernalist vision of something like ECT whatever He had said? The purpose of such a vision would be to justify and authenticate our fears to ourselves.

Or are there other reasons?

This is quite a gloomy topic but the the Good News is that God comes to find us in our misunderstanding and fear and brings us home. This is the universalist vision.
Jesus and the Apostles were very clear about the afterlife and the 2 places where mankind will spend eternity.


We can see that there is conscious existence after physical death. Jesus John and Paul teach this in the passages below. Jesus here lets us know there is conscious existence in Paradise. Some may object by saying this is a parable. This would be the only time Jesus used actual names in a parable so this could be an actual event, but even if it is only a parable there are some simple basic truths to be mines from this story or event. We see Lazarus and Abraham identified in this place. What we learn is there is conscious existence with both pain and suffering as well as comfort and joy depending on which side one is on in Hades. So according to Jesus own teaching and authority there is conscience existence in Paradise.


Luke 16:22-31
22
"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24"And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house — 28for I have five brothers — in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Rev 6:9-11
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Philippians 1:23-25
23
But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

We can also see that in the OT both Elijah and Enoch were taken to be with the Lord.(Gen 5:24,2 Kings 2:1,11-14,Heb11;5) We also see the conscious existence of both Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration where they spoke with Peter,John and James(see Matt 17:3).


Matthew 17:1-9
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters — one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

These men still await the resurrection of the last day but yet they are conscious and communicated with Jesus and the disciples. This is in complete agreement with Lazarus above when he died and went to Paradise. We also see that Jesus told the thief on the cross that TODAY (after both of their deaths)you will be with Me in Paradise. Jesus said that He went to be with the Father immediately upon His death in Luke 23:46


46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last. The above passage with Jesus is exactly what we see in the book of Acts and Stephens death.


Acts 7:59-60 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

In Luke we see that Jesus said God was the God of the living not the dead. Jesus was letting the Pharisees know that even though these men died many centuries ago that they were alive in the presence of God. We also see that the author of Hebrews confirms this teaching as well. There is no passage as clear as this one about the believer going to be with Jesus upon his death. We can see in the book of Hebrews that it refers to the “spirits made righteous” who are in heaven. These souls are with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem. Here we see the souls of the departed (at death) are not sleeping but on the contrary are conscious and worshiping the Lord in heaven.


Hebrews 12:22-24
22
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.


Below we also have the example of Samuel speaking with Saul who was dead yet could speak and was conscious,

1 Samuel 28:14-20
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

"I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."

16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors — to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."

20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel's words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.


To sum up the conscious existence of man is irrefutable when one looks at the teaching of Jesus, John, Paul and the writer of Hebrews. There is no escaping the clear biblical teaching of the immortality of the soul.
 
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continued :

The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.



Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
 
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Hmm

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The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

If that's true, why do think there is so much disagreement amongst Christians about it?
 
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Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
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If that's true, why do think there is so much disagreement amongst Christians about it?
Personally its our fallen human nature that rebels against it as we thing its unloving for there to be a hell and eternal punishment for sin, we don't like it. I don't like it either but its not about what I like or don't like but about what God has revealed in His word which is TRUTH.

If eternal punishment is not true and real then neither is heaven and eternal bliss for believers. Scripture talks about both of them fairly equally.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Hmm

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Personally its our fallen human nature that rebels against it as we thing its unloving for there to be a hell and eternal punishment for sin, we don't like it. I don't like it either but its not about what I like or don't like but about what God has revealed in His word which is TRUTH.

If eternal punishment is not true and real then neither is heaven and eternal bliss for believers. Scripture talks about both of them fairly equally.

hope this helps !!!

An eternal heaven doesn't imply an eternal hell. The moral universe isn't a zero sum game where every good has to have an opposing bad.
 
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