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That's ridiculous.
I have tons of scripture if you want to see it. But you don't.
Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it unbiblical. Especially after all the scripture we have shared with you. Repeat... shared with you.
They should really cut all the UR verses out of their Bibles. There wouldn't be much left. Swiss cheese.I'll have you know that I've been told what's scriptural and what isn't, thank you very much.
What source material do you plan on using? I have been posting quotes from the Talmud, the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Judaica for a few decades you won't believe them so I would be very interested in what you consider reliable sources? My guess it will be the usual quotes from UR websites and UR "scholars."I don't see much point in investing time and energy arguing about something you don't understand. Most Christians I know of even learn about other religions like Islam and Hinduism before debating with a Muslims and Hindus.
As a matter of fact I'm going to start digging deeper into what the Jews believed and taught during the 400 year intertestamental period.
What source material do you plan on using? I have been posting quotes from the Talmud, the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Judaica for a few decades you won't believe them so I would be very interested in what you consider reliable sources?
My guess it will be the usual quotes from UR websites and UR "scholars."
They should really cut all the UR verses out of their Bibles. There wouldn't be much left. Swiss cheese.
They should really cut all the UR verses out of their Bibles. There wouldn't be much left. Swiss cheese.
WRONG! I quoted in-context passages, from 3 Jewish sources, which supported the proposition I posted. The proposition is, among the Jews before and during the time of Jesus there was s significant belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment which the Jews called both Ge hinnom and Sheol which is written in the 225 BC LXX and the NT as Gehenna and Hades. I challenge you to prove me wrong, otherwise you have made a false accusation. And unlike them other guys I acknowledged that there were other beliefs among the Jews.Please you cherry picked some snippets, big deal
And yes I don't believe in the Talmud and
Your opinion is not relevant. I didn't quote any "unscriptural Jewish mythology and mysticism," The fact that there may be some mythological stuff in thew Talmud does NOT detract from the historical information which is there as shown by the two Jewish encyclopedias I also quoted.unscriptural Jewish mythology and mysticism, shocking as that may be
Be my guest 3+ decades and I have not been shown to be wrong yet. I even provided links to my sources because I have absolutely zero concern that anything I post will be found to be false. Other folks not so much .But I'm going to study it all the same like I once studied Mormonism. And I'll probably quickly learn far more about it than what you have in those snippets.
Some of the so-called "scholars" you and other UR-ites quote don't merit the title. See e.g. Robert Young author of "Young's 'Literal" Translation." He was self taught in Greek and Hebrew but is held up as the be all, end all expert in both languages. Who said Young's translation was "literal?" It was not a reviewing team at a publishing house or Seminary. It was Young himself. What does that tell you?My pursuit in learning more about this has little to do with universalism. My guess is "scholars" = anyone who doesn't support your doctrinal view
That's ridiculous.
I have tons of scripture if you want to see it. But you don't.
Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it unbiblical. Especially after all the scripture we have shared with you. Repeat... shared with you.
A faith that can't stand up to a little criticism is not much of a faith.
What do you like best about hell?
You are fighting tooth and claw to protect it. What value do you see?
What is hard to believe may actually be wrong. Human sensibility.I don't like hell at all.
But Jesus preached about Hell and I believe Him.
I accept hard truths from the bible, even ones that I do not like.
What is hard to believe may actually be wrong. Human sensibility.
The United States has in place the Constitution the prevention of cruel and unusual punishment. The reason being that criminals are still human beings and should not be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. God who is full of love, mercy, compassion and grace would not behave in such a cruel manner. It is inconsistent with His nature and character. I believed the doctrine of eternal hell 100% for over 20 yrs. Never had a problem with it, it only began to change when I saw how cruel I became to other believers who did not agree with my version of Christianity, it was at that point God literally told me to re-think my faith. The key is I had to “think” about what I believed. If we believe God is cruel enough to allow suffering and torment for infinity we will behave accordingly.
WRONG! Your opinion is not relevant.
Would you consider the killing millions, all the inhabitants of earth, men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by drowning, except for Noah and his family, cruel and unusual punishment? I have a picture in my mind of mothers and fathers holding their children and babies above their heads trying to prevent them from drowning.What is hard to believe may actually be wrong. Human sensibility.
The United States has in place the Constitution the prevention of cruel and unusual punishment. The reason being that criminals are still human beings and should not be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. God who is full of love, mercy, compassion and grace would not behave in such a cruel manner. It is inconsistent with His nature and character. I believed the doctrine of eternal hell 100% for over 20 yrs. Never had a problem with it, it only began to change when I saw how cruel I became to other believers who did not agree with my version of Christianity, it was at that point God literally told me to re-think my faith. The key is I had to “think” about what I believed. If we believe God is cruel enough to allow suffering and torment for infinity we will behave accordingly.
Would you consider the killing millions, all the inhabitants of earth, men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by drowning, except for Noah and his family, cruel and unusual punishment? I have a picture in my mind of mothers and fathers holding their children and babies above their heads trying to prevent them from drowning.
Would you consider the killing 100s of thousands, all the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plains; men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by fire cruel and un usual punishment.
Would you consider killing thousands, all of the inhabitants of the Cities in Canaan; men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by spear and sword cruel and unusual punishment?
So what do you do with all the times Jesus says "there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth"?
I quoted in-context passages, from 3 Jewish sources, which supported the proposition I posted. The proposition is, among the Jews before and during the time of Jesus there was s significant belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment which the Jews called both Ge hinnom and Sheol which is written in the 225 BC LXX and the NT as Gehenna and Hades. I challenge you to prove me wrong, otherwise you have made a false accusation. And unlike them other guys I acknowledged that there were other beliefs among the Jews.
Hyperbolic expression of regret and even pain for the awareness of how sin hurts others. Punishment is not a vacation, because of God’s mercy it is limited but it as painful as chemo or surgery. The outcome is spiritual wholeness and our relationship with God is restored when we learn the full scope of sin and how it affected others.So what do you do with all the times Jesus says "there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth"?
So you're perfectly comfortable and not at all sad, that all sea animals just go extinct, even though they did not sin?
that all things are made new.. except 70% of this planet?
Would you consider the killing millions, all the inhabitants of earth, men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by drowning, except for Noah and his family, cruel and unusual punishment? I have a picture in my mind of mothers and fathers holding their children and babies above their heads trying to prevent them from drowning.
Would you consider the killing 100s of thousands, all the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plains; men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by fire cruel and un usual punishment.
Would you consider killing thousands, all of the inhabitants of the Cities in Canaan; men, women, old, young, children, infants, healthy and cripple, by spear and sword cruel and unusual punishment?
Had you bothered to read my posts. All these specious objections were addressed. And what the Jews believed was mirrored by Jesus. All in my post.I'm not disputing what they came to believe during the intertestamental period. The question is, how they developed that belief. Where it came from. Did it come from God, or from those who occupied their land? They had quite a history of adopting the pagan beliefs of others after all. Perhaps the Pharisees came up with it as a tool of intimidation.
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