Why is religious faith in decline?

[bèlla]

That’s a very good question! Some would. Some wouldn’t.

That would depend on whether their faith is grounded in meeting external needs or the internal void which none can fill but Him. If the latter holds true, you can meet Him in plenty or less. Because you understand the root of your lack.

In my case, a complete reversal of fortune changed me from a casual believer into a new relationship with Christ I had never had. My personal belief is that God used that circumstance to make me see that trusting HIM was the most important thing in my life.

I am glad you found the Pearl and held firm.

~Bella

 

[Hawkins]

The Rise Of Atheism

People thinking that they woke up from a religion are actually indoctrinated by a long year secular education since childhood. Spiritually speaking they are fooled by the much more intelligent Satan. Satan want people to believe that modern humans are more intelligent and knowledgeable. When pride grows people will depart from God as Satan did.

The most common anti-reality line of reasoning is that "because God is not evidenced by science, thus it makes more sense not to believe such a God".

Our reality operates in very opposite way. I tried to prove them time and again that humans in majority rely on faith instead of evidence to get to a truth of any kind.

 

[Hawkins]

I don't see how that explains why people are leaving religious institutions and citing non-belief as a reason. How does something written in the Bible explain what is occurring in the 21st Century?

It is prophesied in many places. In Daniel it is prophesied that people seek knowledge during the end time. God's truth against human fallacies is in the scroll given to Daniel.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 (NIV2011)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie,

Science (can be good can be evil) performs the miraculous signs. The seem-to-be scientific reasoning however turns out to be deceitfully fallacious. It thus forms a powerful delusion to keep people in captivity (thus responsible for the decline).

Sidenote: "God sends" means God allows in a sense of absolute sovereignty.


Jesus also warned that when the end time comes, Christians need to endure to the end to be saved.

Matthew 24:13 (KJV)
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Interestingly,

Daniel 12:4 (KJV)
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:4 (NRSV)
But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end. Many shall be running back and forth, and evil shall increase."


It is accurately put (prophesied) about the effect of the end time knowledge.

It is firstly summarized in Genesis,
Tree of Knowledge (can be good and can be evil)

Genesis 2:17 (NRSV)
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.



Decline = they are doomed under the influence of Satan to depart from God as a result of gaining knowledge in a fallacious way (by eating the fruit on the Tree of Knowledge).

 

[Mantishand]

What creator? I don't think one exists. The natural world seems to be evolving on its own machinery.

Yeah he exists. He Absolutely exists. In fact I know He exists. You can too.

 

[Caliban]

It's one thing to say "I wish I had a donkey." Christians are encouraged to pray for that.

It's quite another thing to say "I wish I had Caliban's donkey." For one thing, that twists me up inside, to the detriment of my soul. Every time I see it, I say to myself "So-and-so's got a donkey. It's not fair!" Eventually, that line of thinking leads to me meeting you in a dark alleyway with a knife.

Equally, "Please, God, send me a wife" is fine. 2 Samuel 11 tells the story of what happens when you start to think "I wish I had his wife." It's not pretty.



With respect, I don't think you understand the passage as well as you think you do.

I don't disagree with you--I read it the same way. My only point was that the prohibition is similar in nature to the Hindu and Buddhist idea of avoiding attachment. It's not the same of course, but similar. Both concern the avoidance of material things for spiritual reasons. I was not trying to made a broader point.

 

[crossnote]

I think modern Christian ideas of what an idol is differs greatly from how religious texts from the Ancient Near East conceived them. The description as American Football as an idol, for example, would not reflect the Hebraic conception of idolatry during the third or fourth centuries BCE--nor the first and second centuries when the Christian New Testament was written. It seems to be a huge semantic leap to compare the two versions of idol worship as if they were the same thing.

I am running with the concept that an idol is anything that pulls our affections away from God...

James 1:14-15 ESV
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Colossians 3:5 ESV
[5] Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

James 1:14-15 ESV
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

and from the ‘Jewish perspective’...

Ezekiel 6:9 ESV
[9] then those of you who escape will remember me among the nations where they are carried captive, how I have been broken over their whoring heart that has departed from me and over their eyes that go whoring after their idols. And they will be loathsome in their own sight for the evils that they have committed, for all their abominations.

 

[Caliban]

I am running with the concept that an idol is anything that pulls our affections away from God...

James 1:14-15 ESV
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Colossians 3:5 ESV
[5] Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

James 1:14-15 ESV
[14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

and from the ‘Jewish perspective’...

Ezekiel 6:9 ESV
[9] then those of you who escape will remember me among the nations where they are carried captive, how I have been broken over their whoring heart that has departed from me and over their eyes that go whoring after their idols. And they will be loathsome in their own sight for the evils that they have committed, for all their abominations.

That is a fairy broad view of what an idol is. An idol would not be described that way when considering it in academic terms, but that's fine for personal religious practice I suppose. It ends up being so vague that literally anything that is not God is an idol. That seems unhelpful to me.

 

[crossnote]

That is a fairy broad view of what an idol is. An idol would not be described that way when considering it in academic terms, but that's fine for personal religious practice I suppose. It ends up being so vague that literally anything that is not God is an idol. That seems unhelpful to me.

Academic terms? Since idolatry involves God Himself, I think He would be the best determiner of what an idol would be, which He has done so throughout His revealed written Word.

 

[Caliban]

Academic terms? Since idolatry involves God Himself, I think He would be the best determiner of what an idol would be, which He has done so throughout His revealed written Word.

I think and respond in academic terms; I don't believe in a real god.

 

[Hank77]

nm

 

[Hank77]

I will respond first by saying, I still haven't learned how to quote separate parts of a person's response. I even googled it. What am I doing wrong?

I just hi-lited the first portion I wanted to quote and then pressed 'quote' instead of 'reply'. I did this for each portion of your post. Then I went to the reply box at the bottom of the page and 'insert quotes' and then you can type between them as I have here.

Anyway, I agree that Jesus was a figure that challenged authority and power--I appreciate that a lot.

smile

I think where I disagree a bit is with the idea that there is evidence for God.

be blessed

That is a rather large claim. I can see why people now days are less inclined to believe it. me included.

Hope this helps.

 

[Caliban]

Yeah he exists. He Absolutely exists. In fact I know He exists. You can too.

I'm not sure how you would demonstrate that claim. I think a growing number of people nowadays find assertions difficult to take for granted. The poll numbers indicate a trend in the opposite direction from belief. That says nothing about the validity of the truth claim; just that a growing number of people are not arriving at the conclusion you have arrived at.

 

[Ilikecats]

I'm not sure how you would demonstrate that claim. I think a growing number of people nowadays find assertions difficult to take for granted. The poll numbers indicate a trend in the opposite direction from belief. That says nothing about the validity of the truth claim; just that a growing number of people are not arriving at the conclusion you have arrived at.

God’s purpose for creation isn’t to save everyone otherwise everyone would be saved. The end goal of creation is to glorify Jesus. It never was about numbers.

 

[Caliban]

God’s purpose for creation isn’t to save everyone otherwise everyone would be saved. The end goal of creation is to glorify Jesus. It never was about numbers.

Okay...? I know you believe that; how does that fit in to this thread? I'm unclear on that?

 

[Ilikecats]

Okay...? I know you believe that; how does that fit in to this thread? I'm unclear on that?

You keep bringing up numbers to show that Christianity is a false religion and in error. I just stated why that’s an incorrect conclusion.

 

[agapelove]

God’s purpose for creation isn’t to save everyone otherwise everyone would be saved. The end goal of creation is to glorify Jesus. It never was about numbers.

While I think some will remain unbelievers in this lifetime that is not to say that God created some to purposefully not save..... that is a totally separate topic though which can be discussed in an entirely different thread.

The end goal of creation is for it to be summed up in Christ. It is about the numbers.

 

[Caliban]

You keep bringing up numbers to show that Christianity is a false religion and in error. I just stated why that’s an incorrect conclusion.

When did I ever say Christianity is a "false religion." Pleas don't mistake my position; that is a straw man argument and just wrong.

This thread is about why the numbers of non-believers are rising in the U.S. I'm not sure how your belief about "creation" and other theological issues are related to the topic. Maybe you could explain it another way.

 

[Ilikecats]

When did I ever say Christianity is a "false religion." Pleas don't mistake my position; that is a straw man argument and just wrong.

This thread is about why the numbers of non-believers are rising in the U.S. I'm not sure how your belief about "creation" and other theological issues are related to the topic. Maybe you could explain it another way.

My reply was specifically addressed to your post regarding the conclusions of faith of Mantishead. You brought up that a growing number of people are not coming to that conclusion and I stated a reason that even though religion is declining it is not of a concern to God. If you’ve fallen from the faith then I drew the conclusion that you don’t think Christianity is true. Why wouldn’t you believe in a true religion?

 

[Caliban]

My reply was specifically addressed to your post regarding the conclusions of faith of Mantishead. You brought up that a growing number of people are not coming to that conclusion and I stated a reason that even though religion is declining it is not of a concern to God. If you’ve fallen from the faith then I drew the conclusion that you don’t think Christianity is true. Why wouldn’t you believe in a true religion?

I have no idea what a true or a false religion means. Do you mean that there is a region in the world that is true in all of it's supernatural claims? Your definition is not clear unless you define your terms.

I have not "fallen from the faith" as you say. I left a church is more accurate. Fallen has a negative connotation and is full of loaded meaning that I think is code for spiritual failure. I don't think of it like that at all.

Just because I don't believe the supernatural claims of your religion, does not mean I think it is valueless or false in the sense that I would disparage people within that tradition.

 

[Ilikecats]

I have no idea what a true or a false religion means. Do you mean that there is a region in the world that is true in all of it's supernatural claims? Your definition is not clear unless you define your terms.

I have not "fallen from the faith" as you say. I left a church is more accurate. Fallen has a negative connotation and is full of loaded meaning that I think is code for spiritual failure. I don't think of it like that at all.

Just because I don't believe the supernatural claims of your religion, does not mean I think it is valueless or false in the sense that I would disparage people within that tradition.

A false religion is one that clearly is in error. Their claims are not true. I would say that there is a religion that is completely true and that is Christianity. A religion is a compilation of doctrine and beliefs. You can’t separate its parts from its whole. If you don’t believe the claims you can’t say you believe in the religion. It’s either all true or all false.