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Why is pornography wrong?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Na Nach Oi!, Apr 11, 2017.

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  1. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    No, thank you.

    But it answers the question. You obviously think that child pornography is okay also.
    This shows just how far pornography can lead to. Once the adult version doesn't satisfy, you start looking toward other aspects of it.

    Pornography is an addiction. It's dangerous and has ramifications towards ending families, lives and ruining lively hoods. There is nothing good about it.
     
  2. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    You brought up the seven deadly sins which usually that is associated with Catholicism.
     
  3. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Matt 5:28 that says "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

    Her marital status isn't really the point. The guy has done more than just look at her - he's gone beyond that first thought and used his imagination in an ungodly way.
     
  4. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    Nope,
    I'm comparing it to the world of pornography. It happens, quite frequently. I'm sure you've heard of human trafficking. The majority of those taken are women, in their teens and below.
    Many are herded and taken to places for the specific reason of pornography. If you think pornography is ok. You then also condone child pornography. It's the same thing. It's abuse toward a woman, as it is a child. No matter the age.
    Many women who work the field, don't push it or wouldn't wish anyone into the world of pornography. Unless they are prideful and careless about themselves and others.

    The suicide rate is high, the damage to the body is high, the mental distress is high, there is nothing good about it.

    Most importantly. The sacred act of sex that God created to be a gift and a sense of heaven between a man and wife. Has been desecrated and brought low, by the sin of lust, adultery, and fornication. 1 Corinthians is pretty clear.

    1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Here are some stats for ya:

    4.2 million pornographic Web sites; 420 million pages. (ArchKCK - Home)
    • Total porn industry revenue for 2006: $13.3 billion in the United States; $97 billion worldwide. (Internet Filter Review)
    • U.S. adult DVD/video rentals in 2005: almost 1 billion. (Adult Video News)
    • Hotel viewership for adult films: 55%. (cbsnews.com)
    • Number of hardcore pornography titles released in 2005 (U.S.): 13,588. (Internet Filter Review)
    • Adults admitting to Internet sexual addiction: 10%; 28% of those are women. (internet-filter-review.com)
    • More than 70% of men from 18 to 34 visit a pornographic site in a typical month. (comScore Media Metrix)
    • More than 20,000 images of child pornography posted online every week. (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, 10/8/03)
    • Approximately 20% of all Internet pornography involves children. (National Center for Mission & Exploited Children)
    • 100,000 Web sites offer illegal child pornography. (U.S. Customs Service estimate)
    • As of December 2005, child pornography was a $3 billion annual industry. (internet-filter-review.com)
    • 40 million US adults who regularly visit Internet pornography Web sites. (ArchKCK - Home)

    So, NO PORNOGRAPHY ISN'T GOOD.
     
  5. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    This is a fair point. But the topic is whether pornography is wrong.
    This is idealistic, not scriptural. For example: 1 Corinthians 6:18, Matthew 5:19, Hebrews 10:26-31 - these all show that Christians are called to a repentant lifestyle, completely rejecting and repenting from sin.
    I am not required to do so. I am speaking faithfully in the name of Jesus Christ and seeking His bespoke approval for every word on this thread. If you will not agree with my words, I advise you to pray before making opposing statements, thereby to uphold Ephesians 4:1-6.
    The topic (pornography) is inherently sexual though, so we are obligated to stay on topic. Sexual lust makes her an object for your own gratification. That is a selfish way to view a person, and it originates from the passions of the flesh which are at odds with the spirit.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1. It is inappropriate to give this statement in support of pornography.
    This is a strawman argument when the topic is lust as pornography or promiscuous sexual behaviours.
    If you look with lust at a woman, you have already committed adultery with her in your heart.

    My prayer for you is that The Lord will bless you with rebuke, according to Hebrews 12:6.
     
  6. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    I appreciate your lengthy reply. Although I'm too tired to replied to all of it now I did read it all. I do want to reply to the section I quoted though before I fall asleep.

    I thought about the verse in John 8 you quoted before. There's three possible ways to look at it that I can think of.

    1) Pornea does included pre-marital sex and the Pharisees were insinuating that Joseph and Mary committed that when Jesus was conceived.
    2) The Pharisees wrongly think that Pornea included pre-marital sex and insinuated Joseph and Mary committed it. I see this as a possibility since the Pharisees added many laws that were not legitimate.
    3) The Pharisees think that Mary slept with a different man other than Joseph and committed adultery against him since in Jewish law it would be adultery even during the engagement period. After all, Joseph thought Mary cheated on him at first until the angel set him straight.

    Let me know which one you think is right and the others wrong.

    For 1 Corinthians 7:1 Paul is confronting an extreme position that is some believers think it's better to not touch a woman at all. I see this as similar to the catholic church not letting Priests marry and then they end up going off the deep end entirely and molesting kids. That's what can happen when there's no outlet at all. That's what was happening at Corinth, people were doing extreme things like incest, temple prostitutes, and adultery, all things much worst than pre-marital sex. It's similar to people going on a diet and trying to eat only healthy food all the time then finally giving in and indulging in a ton of stuff they weren't even eating before. Like I mentioned in another post I don't see this as confronting pre-marital sex I see this as confronting the sexual stuff that's very obviously sins.

    I think for me the biggest reason I question whether or not pre-marital sex is a sin is because it's not listing in Leviticus chapter 18. Can you share why you think it's not in this long list of sexual sins if it really is a sin?
     
  7. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    I don't disagree that the porn industry is bad. It's not the only avenue for erotic material though. People upload their own videos and pictures to the internet that are home made.
     
  8. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    Yes to repent of things that are legitimate sins. Then the question is to make sure we have the right list of sins. Some early church fathers thought too much sex with your wife was a sin.

    You're not required to carefully consider the points I'm making? What kind of discussion can we even have then. No wonder you're not getting anything I'm saying. You should stop acting superior to everyone and have some considering for what people are trying to say.

    I didn't know if you were talking about some guy lusting after a random woman walking down the street or what.

    Are you talking about a woman being paid to be in a porn video? If so, I'm sure she doesn't care that someone is gratified by her as long as she gets her pay check. If I work at McDonalds and someone pays me to make a hamburger is that person selfish for treating me like a slave? No, it's expected.

    I already addressed this verse.

    Ok so if you look at your wife it's adultery? It's says "woman" your wife is a woman.... Obviously it would not be adultery since she is your wife. So the word woman has to mean only a woman whom it would result in adultery to lust after. Having sex with a single woman isn't adultery. So therefor this verse should have used the word wife instead of woman. In fact the greek word here is the same word that can be translated to wife or women. It depends on the context. If you look up the same verse in the Tyndale bible it uses the word wife not woman. This verse is concerned about theft more than it is about sex. It's about not taking your neighbors wife it has nothing to do with not looking at porno.
     
  9. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    It's still pornography. It's made so others may see.

    You asked earlier about the Biblical definition. First what is your definition of pornography?
     
  10. Torino

    Torino Junior Member

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    This is why I replied as I did earlier. You're dishonest, and I could smell your accusing spirit the moment I read your words. Very typical that people will use whatever means to protect their ego-investments in their pet doctrines.
     
  11. Episaw

    Episaw Always learning

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    Having been employed in the past as a researcher for a Christian ministry that addressed cultural issues, one of which was pornography, I guess one can say the most rational explanation of what is wrong with pornography is the following...

    One. It is a substitute for the real thing.

    Two. It idolizes the opposite sex in an unnatural way or in the case of homosexuality, the same sex.

    Three. it encourages men to not be faithful to their wives.

    Four. It never satisfies the person involved.

    Five. It distorts the truth in relationships.

    Six. It causes the breakdown of marriages.

    Seven. It creates unreasonable expectations by the person viewing the pornography which rarely can be fulfilled.

    Eight. By accessing it you may be contributing to the destruction of the woman's lives who are used in pornography.

    Nine. Like gambling, it can become addictive.

    Ten. It can cost you a lot of money which in some cases you don't have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  12. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    This represents a central fault in the one's implementation of Christianity, where the Christian looks to the church leader to define what sin is (Hebrews 7:12, Hebrews 7:23-25, Matthew 23:8-10). Rather, Christians need to truly seek Christ Jesus for the definition of sin, completely divorcing their own interests.

    Sin is not defined in the form of a list, because whether someone is condemned or free to do something, is dependent upon the individual's understanding (1 Corinthians 8:7-12, Luke 12:47-48, James 4:17). This is why the Christian covenant states that God executes judgement (Hebrews 10:30) so that we either remain in Christ or are cut off like a branch to wither (John 15:1-8).

    We are to offer ourselves in service to His purposes in Holy Spirit (Romans 12:1, Galatians 6:1), not judging each other but saying only what is good for the building up of others, to impart what is useful to the hearers.

    This is why, as I have described, when a Christian becomes indulged in a lifestyle contrary to a holy and noble people (1 Peter 2:9), they are not fit vessels for The Holy Spirit. If then they claim to represent The Holy Spirit while not walking in obedience to Him, whose spirit do they truly represent?
    I would certainly consider the points you are making, if you were appearing to take the matter seriously and were submitting valid points. However, you are presuming to speak in Jesus' name, to suggest that masturbation, pornography and sexual promiscuity is not wrong. But, because you hesitate to outright say this, you are using examples of righteous sexual activities for unmarried ones, in an invalid context so that it fits in this thread, to support the position you have taken.

    In saying this though, you do have a valid point.

    For me to know whether I should repent so as to consider you seriously (Matthew 7:6 yes/no?), I need to know why you were motivated to begin speaking on this thread today, and what is your position in a nutshell?
    No, you were right. When someone becomes aware that to look at someone with lust is to not give that person proper value as a person, then we also begin to see how destructive it is in society, and are motivated with a passion to represent God's original plan of purity for a society that thrives in real love.

    NB: Real love is when we do to others as we would have done to us.
    [​IMG]

    It is nevertheless for you to work out with God.

    Facts exist: that an adulterous heart will look promiscuously rather than being faithful to his spouse. The reason Jesus made this remark, is because sin does not begin at an outward act, but rather with the intention of the heart (Matthew 15:18-20, James 1:15).

    One who is virgin and not yet married has responsibility to his spouse, that he will not be defiled before the marriage bed, even if only defiled in the mind and conscience (Revelation 14:4-5).

    The first love deserves to be the only love, in a world where God's law reigns. However, what we have this present day is a world so heinously disfigured from nature and desperately wicked, that such righteousness is a difficult expectation. Many Christians, kind-hearted as they are, have been gradually lured and enslaved by their sinful passions (Luke 21:23).
     
  13. Episaw

    Episaw Always learning

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    Yes it does. it says in Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

    Just means innocent and holy.

    Pure means modest and perfect.

    Lovely means acceptable.

    Good report means well spoken of and reputable.

    Virtue means manliness and excellence.

    Praise means commendable.

    "I watched a porn video last night. I can highly recommend it as it was so innocent and holy. Everything in it was so modest and perfect. What was shown was perfectly acceptable. What happened in the video was very reputable and well spoken of. It portrayed sex in a very manly and quality way. Definitely commendable to anyone."

    I don't think so!!
     
  14. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Fire for the Earth! (Luke 12:49) Supporter

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    ...all that shows is that the 'porn mentality' has become mainstream--now the consumers, with their gadgets in hand, can be the producers, too. Oh, what a wonderful age we live in! Next, we'll be canonizing Hugh Hefner as a saint ... :confused:
     
  15. more4less

    more4less Active Member

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    According to God, coveting after the flesh is luring us away from Him. And God made a law that we must love the lord your God from the bottom of our hearts and soul, and to have the strong desire to serve Him only. Like children for an example. When they are young, they loves being in their parent's presence. But after they has the desires for the flesh, they abandoned the love that they have had for their parents. God had created the laws to prevent us from straying away from the way we were at one time. And so when you build up your desires for the flesh, that sexual immorality increases in us, that causing us to focus more on the flesh rather than the spirit.

    Matthew 21:16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him. “Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read, “‘From the lips of children and infants you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?”

    Luke 18:15-17 People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

    Matthew 18:3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

    Revelation 2:4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.

    1 John 2:16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

    John 10:12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

    Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”

    Hosea 1:2 When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, “Go, marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her, for like an adulterous wife this land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the Lord.”

    Isaiah 54:6 The Lord will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit— a wife who married young, only to be rejected,” says your God. 7 “For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back. 8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you,” says the Lord your Redeemer.

    Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.




     
  16. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    Is it ok for me to read Song of Solomon? It's erotic material in the Bible. If someone made a movie of it then it would be a porno.

    There's much in the Bible that's very graphic, descriptions of war, bloody and gruesome things, vulgar sexual things like Ezekiel 23:20 uttered by God.

    Maybe we are the ones who are too sensitive about these subjects instead of God.
     
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  17. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    Couldn't this also be seen as a good thing? For a single guy or married guy with a refusing wife isn't it better to look at porn instead of have sex with random women?

    Sex is unnatural? I don't understand this. Sexual desire is a normal, healthy, and natural thing God built into us.

    Not necessarily, maybe some men in rare cases but I think a large amount of men use porn because their wife says no to their advances a lot.

    Well for most men every couple days they are going to desire to have a release. After the release they are satisfied but yes it's temporary. The same way food only satisfies you until you get hungry again. So I guess food is bad too.

    I'm not sure what this one means exactly...

    That depends, some couples watch porn together and it's fine. Some women get upset if their husband watches porn, and if that's the case then he should stop but she should also agree to be available to him whenever he needs her. Some women get upset about men watching porn just because they have been taught to get upset about it.

    Not all of it is the same, some is very mild and realistic. Not everyone goes for the extreme stuff. Some of it could even be considered educational material that husbands and wives could learn new things to try that both of them enjoy.

    I agree with this point to a certain degree. It depends on the circumstances that it's made under and not all of it is the same.

    Lots of things are addictive. Being addictive itself doesn't make it wrong or a sin, it just means you should be careful. I'd say the same thing for porn that you should be careful. Do we have any Christian groups that are against coffee?

    There's also tons of it for free. But because something is expensive doesn't make it a sin.
     
  18. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    So for example, lets say a single girl sends some guy a picture of herself naked. Is it wrong/sinful of her?

    Please keep in mind my earlier point in this thread that Matthew 5:28 is not about single women it's only about married women.

    Also keep in mind that this woman is not being forced to do this, she enjoys it and wants the guy to enjoy seeing it too.
     
  19. Torino

    Torino Junior Member

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    Yeah, coming up with lists of possible negative consequences doesn't prove anything as far as whether the object/activity itself is evil.

    A lot of people's lives are being destroyed by getting married, here in the West these days, people even losing their lives over it when things go wrong. In fact I'd venture to say that you're probably safer sticking to porn than risking marriage in the West given the way so many wind up, but no Christian who is aware of these things would argue that therefore marriage itself is evil.

    So trying to make an appeal to some possible negative consequences is not good reasoning, as I've pointed out several times in this thread. Maybe my analogy with marriage will make it more understandable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  20. redstang281

    redstang281 New Member

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    But is this what the Bible says or just your commentary based on the anti-sex theology we've all grown up with in the church? See what I'm getting at?

    I'm not looking for loop holes, I just I noticed that the Bible doesn't always line up with conservative christian thinking so I'm trying to get to the truth of it.

    In church history at one point it was taught that having sex with your wife without the purpose or procreation was a sin (only for pleasure). So if you lived back then and brought up the point that the Bible doesn't teach that people would say you were looking for loop holes.
     
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