WHY is homosexuality a sin?

[fragmentsofdreams]

But the bible seems to expressly state that god dissaproves of homosexuality. There is no reference to cult prostitution anywhere (at least not near the anti-gay verses).

The reference to homosexuality in Romans is in the middle of a discussion of idolatry. This context is lost when only a couple of verses are quoted.

With Leviticus, my argument is based on the belief that it is more probable that the verses in Leviticus are references to male cult prostitution than that they are the only universal prohibitions of homosexual sex in the entire OT. It would be very odd for Leviticus to prohibit homosexuality without mentioning cult prostitution while Deuteronomy to prohibit cult prostitution while not mentioning homosexuality in general.

1 Corinthians is a reference to Leviticus, so I interpret it the same way.

The story of Sodom is an attempted gang rape, which should be condemned regardless of the genders involved.

 

[kopilo]

Why is god against gay acts and lifestyle is it doesn't hurt anyone? We don't try to outlaw it because it doesn't hurt anyone. So why is god so against it?

I only believe there is one sin and that is causing harm. So no; to me God is not against homosexuality.

 

[Charlie V]

Ah, sorry, I understand you now.

So how do you reconcile the fact that the bible and mainstream religions are so much against homosexuality?

The Bible? Bah. Misinterpretation and mistranslation of a handful of passages, less than 0.01 % of the Bible on the whole. It wasn't the sin of Sodom and Gomorah. Romans was a mistranslation not in most Bibles. "If an 'iysh lies with zakar it's an abomination," that's ritual child abuse, that's not adult homosexuality. How do you reconcile eating lobster and the Bible? You don't, you just eat your lobster.

Don't you know there are a billion translations and a billion interpretations of the Bible?

Don't you also know that not all Christians believe that the modern interpretation of an English translation of a Councel of Nicea selected collection of writings we call "the Bible" is the infallible and irrefutable perfect and totally without refute rock?

Don't you know that there are some Christians that pretty much like the sermon on the mount and the idea of people being nice to one another?

As for mainstream religion? Bah. They don't have the one true God-approved (TM) understanding like I do.

Here's the one true God-approved (TM) understanding:

Love. Just love. That's what it's about. All you need is love. Give peace a chance. Be a good Samaritan. Feed the hungry. Be nice.

There's more Christianity, or at least purer Christianity as Jesus taught it, in a few specific Beatles songs, then there are in most "mainstream" religions combined.

Charlie

 

[gengwall]

The answer to your question is really a simple one. God designed sex to occur only within marriage, and God designed marriage to be strictly heterosexual. It is not that homosexual sex is some kind of super sin. It isn't, anymore than any sex outside of marriage is. In other words, the reason that homosexual sex is sinful is because it is sex outside of marriage. The reason why it can never become ok is that, regardless of what laws man may make, marriage was designed by God to be heterosexual. Only a man and woman can cleave together and become one flesh in God's design. Sorry, but it's that simple.

 

[Charlie V]

.

 

[gengwall]

Animals don't get married. Should they all stop having sex?

Charlie

I am pretty sure we are talking about human beings. Did I miss a few posts?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God designed sex to occur only within marriage, and God designed marriage to be strictly heterosexual.

If this is true, then why is it even POSSIBLE to have sex outside of marriage, or, for that matter, homosexual sex. Nope, sorry, afraid you havn't really thought this one through.

God loves homosexuals as much as anyone else, and homosexual love is as much Giodly love as heterosexual love. Unless you have any actual coherent explanation to the contrary?

 

[gengwall]

If this is true, then why is it even POSSIBLE to have sex outside of marriage, or, for that matter, homosexual sex. Nope, sorry, afraid you havn't really thought this one through.

God loves homosexuals as much as anyone else, and homosexual love is as much Giodly love as heterosexual love. Unless you have any actual coherent explanation to the contrary?

Why is it possible to have sin at all? We are presuming for the discussion that sin exists and there is no reason why sin can't infringe on God's design for both sexuality and marriage. It is possible to have sex outside of marriage because satan has corrupted God's good design. That shouldn't be too hard a concept to grasp.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Why is it possible to have sin at all? We are presuming for the discussion that sin exists and there is no reason why sin can't infringe on God's design for both sexuality and marriage. It is possible to have sex outside of marriage because satan has corrupted God's good design. That shouldn't be too hard a concept to grasp.

How can Satan corrupt God's design? God is all powerful! Are you saying Satan is stronger than God???

 

[gengwall]

How can Satan corrupt God's design? God is all powerful! Are you saying Satan is stronger than God???

That is a red herring. The OP assumes sin exists and God exists and that sin is a violation of God's design. The question is, given those assumptions, is homosexual sex such a violation.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The question is, given those assumptions, is homosexual sex such a violation.

Ah. Well, difficult questions you choose to sidestep aside... no. Homosexuality is not a sin.

 

[rabbits]

There's somthing becoming very clear as i read through these... it is us, as humans, and not God, that had decided that homosexuality is a sin. (probably when everyone was a gainst gays and it was illgal to be so).
If any other institution said what the Church says, tey would be sued for discrimination, but because it's the church...
The fact is, if we believe that God created everyone, we must also assume that he created homosexuals.
There are plenty of homosexuals that are brilliant people, and do loads of charity work etc.
Their character is not changed just because they are gay!

 

[gengwall]

Ah. Well, difficult questions you choose to sidestep aside... no. Homosexuality is not a sin.

I did not sidestep the question. See my first post.

 

[gengwall]

There's somthing becoming very clear as i read through these... it is us, as humans, and not God, that had decided that homosexuality is a sin. (probably when everyone was a gainst gays and it was illgal to be so).
If any other institution said what the Church says, tey would be sued for discrimination, but because it's the church...
The fact is, if we believe that God created everyone, we must also assume that he created homosexuals.
There are plenty of homosexuals that are brilliant people, and do loads of charity work etc.
Their character is not changed just because they are gay!

You miss the point. No one is questioning that homosexuals are as valued by God as any other human beings. Their character also is not what is being questioned. What is being questioned is whether or not it is part of God's design for sexuality that they engage in sexual relations.

 

[Charlie V]

I'm just going to say this plainly.

You say God made sex for marriage and that God made marriage for heterosexuals.

I disagree with you, and I think history and observation of the animal kingdom disputes your claim. I even think that careful Bible study disputes your claim, but it has to be much more extensive research on the original languages and context and everything involved then is possible for any message board. All that's possible on a message board is sound bites, and of course, you can twist Bible sound bites to support your claim, leading to endless circular argument.

I'm quite sure that God didn't speak to you from a booming voice from the heavens and tell you this. You might have interpretted it, possibly in part from the Bible, but more based on your uprbringing and what you've always been told the Bible passages mean, based on what the words were translated to in English.

Well, I disagree with those interpretations. And I'm certain that, if from the time you were a child, your ministers in your religion and your parents and family growing up told you a different interpretation, you'd believe that interpretation.

So, to answer the OP:

Sin is a matter of opinion. Some think it's sin because they interpret religion that way and they think God says it's a sin. Other people think otherwise. That's all there is to it.

This applies to ALL "sin" really. A "sin" is something that "'offends God." People who believe in God have their opinions as to what offends God, based on what their denomination and their religion and their reading of the Bible leads to form their opinions. Some think that eating lobster is also a sin. Some don't. Some think that celebrating holidays is also a sin. Some don't. God is not speaking from the clouds telling us, and if God really did give us a book, he gave us a lot of denominations with a lot of interpretations of that book.

Ultimately, it comes down to opinion.

Charlie

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Charlie says it pretty well, but the corolary to what Charlie says is that if you are serious about what the Bible says, surely Christ's message of forgiveness and acceptance means that you would be better dedicating yourself to loving others, rather than trying to tell other people they are in sin?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I did not sidestep the question. See my first post.

Fine, good... sematics aside... homosexuality is not a sin, unless you are aware of a reason to consider it so that I am not...?

 

[gengwall]

I'm just going to say this plainly.

You say God made sex for marriage and that God made marriage for heterosexuals.

I disagree with you, and I think history and observation of the animal kingdom disputes your claim. I even think that careful Bible study disputes your claim, but it has to be much more extensive research on the original languages and context and everything involved then is possible for any message board. All that's possible on a message board is sound bites, and of course, you can twist Bible sound bites to support your claim, leading to endless circular argument.

I'm quite sure that God didn't speak to you from a booming voice from the heavens and tell you this. You might have interpretted it, possibly in part from the Bible, but more based on your uprbringing and what you've always been told the Bible passages mean, based on what the words were translated to in English.

Well, I disagree with those interpretations. And I'm certain that, if from the time you were a child, your ministers in your religion and your parents and family growing up told you a different interpretation, you'd believe that interpretation.

So, to answer the OP:

Sin is a matter of opinion. Some think it's sin because they interpret religion that way and they think God says it's a sin. Other people think otherwise. That's all there is to it.

This applies to ALL "sin" really. A "sin" is something that "'offends God." People who believe in God have their opinions as to what offends God, based on what their denomination and their religion and their reading of the Bible leads to form their opinions. Some think that eating lobster is also a sin. Some don't. Some think that celebrating holidays is also a sin. Some don't. God is not speaking from the clouds telling us, and if God really did give us a book, he gave us a lot of denominations with a lot of interpretations of that book.

Ultimately, it comes down to opinion.

Charlie

The animal kingdom and human history are irrelevant. Only the bible counts. I think it is plain but you seem to think it says:

a) Sex can occur both inside and outside of marriage and God doesn't care

b) Marriage can be between any humans and God doesn't care.

I would like even a shred of evidence in your vast research into scripture that supports those contentions.

 

[gengwall]

Charlie says it pretty well, but the corolary to what Charlie says is that if you are serious about what the Bible says, surely Christ's message of forgiveness and acceptance means that you would be better dedicating yourself to loving others, rather than trying to tell other people they are in sin?

Jesus also told the woman caught in adultary to "go and sin no more". Certainly, Jesus cares about sin.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The animal kingdom and human history are irrelevant. Only the bible counts. I think it is plain but you seem to think it says:

Wrong. NOT only the Bible counts... God allows us, indeed, encourages us, to use our own minds to make decisions about matters that the Bible does not adequately cover, or indeed, areas that logic and science demonstrate the Bible to have incorrect information.

The Bible is an excelent guide to life, and its message, basically, is "do your best to get along with everyone else, and treat others as you'd like to be treated". Thats it. It certainly doesn't suggest that God has EVER made any demands of humankind that weren't
a. logical
b. dependant on the Bible for their rationale

Now, while injunctions against homosexuality may make sense in the context of a subsistence semi nomadic desert dwelling culture, it does NOT follow that the same injunction should be equally valid for an urbanised Western society, unless you can explain a LOGICAL REASON for it...