Why is Hell permanent?

[createdtoworship]

listen, im not the one who ever said i agree with any of these words being translated into hell in the first place.....did i ever say i agreed with that? answer....no. there is no eternal hellfire. the wicked are sent to the grave (upon mortal death), on judgement day, the wicked will be called out of their grave to face judgement, upon hearing their sentence, they will be sent to their death, demise, destruction, to perish, to be no more......all of these words and more are used. they all denote the same thing, and it isnt being eternally burned in a firepit for all eternity.

so no, theres no confusion on my part, no 3 places. if you wish to refer to the lake of fire as hell, then go ahead. thats where everything wicked will be disposed of, including death, evil, hell, the devil and his angels, etc. the bible confirms all of this, and is very consistent. there is no confusion here.

so they go to the grave, are resurrected, then sent back to the grave? listen to yourself. Does that make a lick of sense?

 

[createdtoworship]

Agreed context is everything.

In Matt 10:28 we are told that God will "destroy both body and soul in fiery hell".

in Luke 12 we find the parallel passage for that same event - as told by Luke.

in Christ,

Bob

Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."

"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever," (Rev. 19:3).
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

 

[Sadalmelik]

so they go to the grave, are resurrected, then sent back to the grave? listen to yourself. Does that make a lick of sense?

i didnt make the rules, im not worthy. that is what the bible says, if you wish, i can summarize for you with all the verses that say this.....i can see where some would find it a bit odd, but i dont question the author of judgement. do you?

does frying someone in a nazi style fiery inferno, to be burned both physically, mentally, and all parts of soul intact, to be traumitized in agony beyond comprehension, all with no possible end to it, all the while God and the angels looking on, the saints making judgements of their past relatives, throwing them into this pit......and God allowing a window of this for all in heaven to see, no appeal, no way out. forever. and this is the best, most loveing, just, and merciful way God could have come up with to dispose of the wicked. that makes sense?

the jew wakes up from death, his death was of unspeakable horror and torment, before he was burned alive, he was starved and beaten for no reason, then burned alive. he wakes up from his grave, to be facing Jesus, and upon hearing his sentence, is thrown back into a fiery pit, only this time, he has no chance of getting out, death will allude him, there will be no end. this is the loving, merciful, and just god the othodox serve. does that make a lick of sense? and all this for what purpose? ya, that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."

"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever," (Rev. 19:3).
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

seriously where back on this? aionion? doesnt prove anything, except that the translators did a great job of mistranslating words, and they were consistent at it. what does that prove.?

 

[Sadalmelik]

isaiah 34
8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
a year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 And the streams of Edom[b] shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
10 Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever and ever.



so what exactly do the verses you just provided prove??
so this is describing the city of edom, or in kjv, the city of idumea(isaiah 34:6) same city........let me ask, if your so sure of the verses you posted, can you explain to me why the same words are used here, and this city's fire is not still burning, the smoke is not still going up forever, and im sure some have passed thru it by now, some thousands of years later.?

1 will not be quenched
2 smoke shall go up forever
3 none shall pass thru it forever and ever

wow, where have i heard all this before.....ooh i know, you just posted them in regards to some verses about 'eternal hellfire'.

 

[dollarsbill]

eternal destruction doesnt denote hell, paul made no reference of hell, eternal destruction is just that, destruction, it doesnt say hell. spin it all you want. for all you guys who love the eng. translation bibles, particularly the kjv, it says eternal destruction....it is not translated as hell.

Then it wouldn't say "eternal destruction". Destruction would be quite accurate.

 

[BobRyan]

Jerusalem was "Destroyed" several times. Each time it experienced "destruction". But "eternal destruction" means it would not come back.

Obviously.

However if instead of being completely destroyed - the real fact is that the ccity was NEVER completely destroyed - and that no matter the length of time or the damage done - no one to this day was able to destroy Solomon's temple or the walls that David built - then we would argue that No one was actually able to destroy it.

When your definition of "eternal destruction" has to be bent into "never destroyed" you know you are using eisegesis to bend the text.

In Matt 10:28 we see that it is God that is able to "DESTROY both body and soul in fiery hell".

In 2Peter 2:6 we find that God "destroys" with "Eternal fire" by "reducing them to ashes".



in Christ,

Bob

 

[dollarsbill]

That is another interesting thought.

But "eternal destruction" like "eternal fire" means that the work that it does -- lasts for ever. It does not mean "never actually destroys". Or "incomplete destruction for ever".

Then there would be no need for "eternal". Only "destruction".

And so because of that - Sodom and Gomorrah are said in the Bible to be given as an example of "undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" - destruction that "reduces them to ashes".

The "eternal fire" came AFTER God burned Sodom alive.

Thus Christ can say in Matt 10:28 that God will "Destroy both body and soul in fiery hell" -- rather than saying "God will never be able to fully destroy both body and soul in fiery hell - even though an eternity is spent trying to do it".

You misquoted the Scripture.

 

[dollarsbill]

Agreed context is everything.

In Matt 10:28 we are told that God will "destroy both body and soul in fiery hell".

in Luke 12 we find the parallel passage for that same event - as told by Luke.

Are you intentionally misquoting the Scripture? Or simply a mistake?

 

[dollarsbill]

seriously where back on this? aionion? doesnt prove anything, except that the translators did a great job of mistranslating words, and they were consistent at it. what does that prove.?

Actually they are quite consistent. Eternal punishment in fire is unmistakeable.

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed context is everything.

In Matt 10:28 we are told that God will "destroy both body and soul in fiery hell".

in Luke 12 we find the parallel passage for that same event - as told by Luke.

Matt 10's "fiery hell" is the same one that you find in Matt 25:42

Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."

"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever," (Rev. 19:3).
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

[FONT=&quot]Jude [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and the cities around them[/FONT][FONT=&quot], since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are [/FONT][FONT=&quot]exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal (everlasting) fire[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 Peter 2:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and if He[/FONT][FONT=&quot] condemned the cities[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of Sodom and Gomorrah to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]destruction by reducing them to ashes[/FONT][FONT=&quot], having [/FONT][FONT=&quot]made them an example[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;[/FONT]

Luke 17:29
[FONT=&quot]but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]destroyed[/FONT][FONT=&quot] them all. (destroy - Apollumi )[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]They are “destroyed” – reduced to ashes by that “eternal fire” from God. Just as God said that “BOTH body AND soul are DESTROYED” in fiery hell Matt 10:28 – so we see that the everlasting fire – the eternal fire of Jude “destroyed” the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Matt 10:28 “Fiery hell” – “ [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matt 18:8-9[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cast into the eternal fire[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cast into the fire of hell ( fiery hell Gehenna)[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Don’t miss the fact that eternal fire is explicitly said to have already fallen on earth. We have a clear and literal example of eternal fire in history according to the Word of God. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This is the same “everlasting fire” that we see Christ speaking of in Matt 25[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]everlasting fire[/FONT][FONT=&quot], prepared for the devil and his angels:[/FONT]


Isaiah 34:8-14 the land of Edom turned to pitch, the fire is not quenched night or day, the smoke rising up "Forever and ever" so that only pelican and hedge hog will live there.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed context is everything.

In Matt 10:28 we are told that God will "destroy both body and soul in fiery hell".

in Luke 12 we find the parallel passage for that same event - as told by Luke.

Are you intentionally misquoting the Scripture? Or simply a mistake?

In the parallel passage in Luke 12 he says God will toss them into hell and you agreed that they are not talking about what "God will NOT do" but rather - what He will do.

Trying to bend this into "Fear him who will NOT destroy both body and soul in fiery hell" is more eisegesis than we are comfortable with in Bible study.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[dollarsbill]

In the parallel passage in Luke 12 he says God will toss them into hell and you agreed that they are not talking about what "God will NOT do" but rather - what He will do.

Trying to bend this into "Fear him who will NOT destroy both body and soul in fiery hell" is more eisegesis than we are comfortable with in Bible study.

Luke 12:5 (NASB)
5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

 

[LadyOfMystery]

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