Why is hell even necessary?

[DontTreadOnMike]

Why is hell even necessary? I understand that God can't be in the presence of unholiness (except when he came to earth?) and I know that he's Just, so sinners can't go to heaven. But he's also merciful.

It seems to me that the perfect balance between Justice and Mercy is after death Christians go to heaven, everyone else ceases to exist. Why would a loving God punish the majority of people for eternity, ETERNITY! for the sin of not accepting His love?

Don't tell me that we send ourselves to hell. We don't. I'm choosing right now not to go. But according to the Bible, I'm going anyway. God chooses to send people to hell. He could just...you know...NOT send us there. Just annihilate our souls so that we are no longer aware or even exist. But instead He chooses to go above and beyond what is necessary to satisfy Justice. He becomes vengeful, unloving, and unmerciful. Or is there something I'm missing? I was a Christian for 22 years so I feel like I have a firm grasp of the theology. But then again I haven't read the Bible much recently in the past few years so maybe there's something I forgot that clears the whole thing up.

And mods, this is a genuine question. I'm not trolling or being confrontational. I want to know what the Bible has to say about this.

 

[Biker Angel]

Hell was created for satan and his demons and those who follow him also follow him to hell:

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority.
2 Peter 2:4-10

 

[drich0150]

Why is hell even necessary?

Hell is the separation between between those who want to be with God and those who do not.

I understand that God can't be in the presence of unholiness (except when he came to earth?)

See the book of Job.

and I know that he's Just, so sinners can't go to heaven. But he's also merciful.

Above all He is Righteous. Righteousness demands that He follow through with the decision we made in this life concerning our eternal fate. Simply because this is what He has given to us in our "Free will."

It seems to me that the perfect balance between Justice and Mercy is after death Christians go to heaven, everyone else ceases to exist.

Who says anything about God seeking balance? This is a far eastern philosophy, that came after these principles had already been established.

Why would a loving God punish the majority of people for eternity, ETERNITY! for the sin of not accepting His love?

Why would a Loving God force all of those who do not Love Him to be with Him for an eternity, An Eternity! if they choose to be separated From Him?
Heaven would be Hell to all of those who did not Choose to be with God, and were forced to be there.

Don't tell me that we send ourselves to hell. We don't. I'm choosing right now not to go.

To Choose not to Go to Hell, means one follows the mandates followed in scripture. It does not mean one simply "wishes" not to goto Hell. You Indeed Choose to goto Hell. You just "wish" God did not hold you accountable to what you have chosen.

This is like saying "I choose not to have a heart attack" but you are refusing to change your diet of Baconators and fried chicken. In reality you only "wish" that you did not have a heart attack. Your "choice" is made evident by your actions.

But according to the Bible, I'm going anyway. God chooses to send people to hell. He could just...you know...NOT send us there.

Then where would righteousness be if He did not follow through with your choice?

Just annihilate our souls so that we are no longer aware or even exist. But instead He chooses to go above and beyond what is necessary to satisfy Justice. He becomes vengeful, unloving, and unmerciful. Or is there something I'm missing?

Perhaps it is you who have insight that God doesn't. Do you know for a fact this is possible?(Our souls destruction) Do you know for a fact that this is not our fate?

We know of Hell through scripture. We also know that scripture does it's best to describe it as a really really bad place, somewhere no one wants to go. But most of our "doctrines" of Hell come out of the medieval church and are at best loosely based in the bible. If I were you and were concerned with Hell I would look less to medieval art and the gospels of man, and more to what the bible says.

I was a Christian for 22 years so I feel like I have a firm grasp of the theology. But then again I haven't read the Bible much recently in the past few years so maybe there's something I forgot that clears the whole thing up.

As I said your "theology" seems to be based in a fairly elementary understanding of a medieval doctrine. Perhaps it is time to open up your bible again.

This is a good place to start:BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

Goto the "key word search" and start there.
If you have questions on what you find I will be happy to answer them.

 

[sabercroft]

Hell is the separation between To Choose not to Go to Hell, means one follows the mandates followed in scripture. It does not mean one simply "wishes" not to goto Hell. You Indeed Choose to goto Hell. You just "wish" God did not hold you accountable to what you have chosen.

This is like saying "I choose not to have a heart attack" but you are refusing to change your diet of Baconators and fried chicken. In reality you only "wish" that you did not have a heart attack. Your "choice" is made evident by your actions.

What is the point of being given free will to choose whether to follow God, then, when the choice is between choosing God and facing eternal torture?

 

[singpeace]

Why is hell even necessary? I understand that God can't be in the presence of unholiness (except when he came to earth?) and I know that he's Just, so sinners can't go to heaven. But he's also merciful.

It seems to me that the perfect balance between Justice and Mercy is after death Christians go to heaven, everyone else ceases to exist. Why would a loving God punish the majority of people for eternity, ETERNITY! for the sin of not accepting His love?

Don't tell me that we send ourselves to hell. We don't. I'm choosing right now not to go. But according to the Bible, I'm going anyway. God chooses to send people to hell. He could just...you know...NOT send us there. Just annihilate our souls so that we are no longer aware or even exist. But instead He chooses to go above and beyond what is necessary to satisfy Justice. He becomes vengeful, unloving, and unmerciful. Or is there something I'm missing? I was a Christian for 22 years so I feel like I have a firm grasp of the theology. But then again I haven't read the Bible much recently in the past few years so maybe there's something I forgot that clears the whole thing up.

And mods, this is a genuine question. I'm not trolling or being confrontational. I want to know what the Bible has to say about this.

Mike,

I believe yes, the lost are cast into the lake of fire, but they perish and do not burn forever. Here is why I believe this.

Revelation 20:12 .....'and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.'

Revelation 20:15 .....'And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.'

Revelation 21:5 .....'And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.'

First, the judgment, which happens after Jesus returns. Then, those who are lost are cast into the lake of fire. Finally, all things are made new. How could God make ALL THINGS new if the lost continue to burn 'forever'?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Don`tTreadOnMike. Hell is where Satan and his followers are, a place without Love and Light. God is Love and God made us in His image, God made us Good. We alone in this Universe, can think and reason, and know the difference between Good and Not Good. Adam and Eve, our proto-types were loved by God. They could eat what they liked, except of the Tree of Knowledge: God had told them if they did, they would die. We all know how the lying Serpent tempted them to ignore God`s warning, and we know the result: Adam and Eve were banished to Earth. They did as they liked, and grew ever farther away from God, men and women became selfish and had no Love for God, or their neighbour. In time Jesus came and showed them God, as God really is, a loving Heavenly Father who wants us all back again. God gave us His Ten Commandments, and Jesus gave us two Commandments which say all what God`s Ten Commandments tell us: 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour, as ourselves. We know that we have free will to choose our life-style: either we follow Jesus`s two straightforward and easy to remember Commandments, or we choose to go our own way. God wants our love freely given, and no conditions tagged on. We have Jesus who will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love. Jesus told us to: " ask and ye will receive." We also have been given much time to become better and better in showing our Love to God and follow His Commandments to Love. Why is hell even necessary??? We are given the choice: either to return to God where we came from, Or go our own way and end up in a place in Outer Space, without God`s Love or Light. All God wants from us now " Repent," change our selfish and unloving character INTO: Love God with all our beings, and love our neighbour as ourselves. God will see and notice our sincere efforts to love our neighbour, ( all others, friends and not friends) and approve and bless us. God will also know how we show our love, and become the children/sons and daughters who love like God wants us to love. I say this with love, Mike. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. Jesus also told us: " On the two Commandments to Love God and our neighbour, hang all the Law and the Prophets. Love changes all we say or do, and we are on Earth to learn to become worthy children of our Great and Glorious Heavenly Father.

 

[drich0150]

What is the point of being given free will to choose whether to follow God, then, when the choice is between choosing God and facing eternal torture?

The question should be why is Hell eternal torture.

Hell is the separation of the creation from the creator. What makes hell torturous, is when we go before God at our judgment all of the things that are veiled from us in this life, will be revealed. Like the nature and depth of the Love God offers us, His eternal plans for us, a more complete knowledge and spiritual maturity of all we will never be apart of. We will go from the highest high (Getting to experience what we were created for) to the literal depths of Hell, in a moment. Where their is a great collection of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We are members of creation like it or not, as such we have been designed to want to be apart of the rest of creation (That is why so many of you want to goto Heaven but just don't want anything to do with God.) Being separated from creation is what makes Hell torturous.

So why does God force accountability on our decision? why is that accountability "Hell?"

Because Hell is the absents of God and any part of creation. It is described as the Void or the Pit. This is the only place one can go to be away from God. Only a unrighteous God would force someone into His presents who spent a life time putting distance between themselves and Him. So Fear not! God is a respecter of your final decisions. He will not drag anyone kicking and screaming into Heaven.

 

[Traveller and Wiley]

I was a Christian for 22 years so I feel like I have a firm grasp of the theology.

Yeah, "why do people go to Hell for not accepting God's love" sounds exactly like somebody with a firm grasp of Christian theology would say.

 

[Habakk]

There is this side to the gospel that is sometimes difficult to comprehend and the question that you ask is probably a question that we have all asked at some time or other.

God is a God of perfect love but he is also a God of justice.

Habakkuk 3:2 says “O LORD, I have heard thy speech, [and] was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy. “ God’s mercy operates through his judgements. Many scriptures make it clear that God not only brings judgement on people and nations to satisfy his holy standard but also in order that he may also bring correction and mercy. So we know from scripture that God’s judgements are righteousness. We also know that “Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. So as God’s ways are above our ways so we know that in that day of judgement, God’s judgements will be seen to be right even in matters concerning eternal destination.

I think that we need to reflect upon this nature of God so we can trust him, not just for our salvation but also to dispel any negative thoughts we may have.

 

[Traveller and Wiley]

Dear Don`tTreadOnMike. Hell is where Satan and his followers are, a place without Love and Light. God is Love and God made us in His image, God made us Good. We alone in this Universe, can think and reason, and know the difference between Good and Not Good. Adam and Eve, our proto-types were loved by God. They could eat what they liked, except of the Tree of Knowledge: God had told them if they did, they would die. We all know how the lying Serpent tempted them to ignore God`s warning, and we know the result: Adam and Eve were banished to Earth. They did as they liked, and grew ever farther away from God, men and women became selfish and had no Love for God, or their neighbour. In time Jesus came and showed them God, as God really is, a loving Heavenly Father who wants us all back again. God gave us His Ten Commandments, and Jesus gave us two Commandments which say all what God`s Ten Commandments tell us: 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour, as ourselves. We know that we have free will to choose our life-style: either we follow Jesus`s two straightforward and easy to remember Commandments, or we choose to go our own way. God wants our love freely given, and no conditions tagged on. We have Jesus who will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love. Jesus told us to: " ask and ye will receive." We also have been given much time to become better and better in showing our Love to God and follow His Commandments to Love. Why is hell even necessary??? We are given the choice: either to return to God where we came from, Or go our own way and end up in a place in Outer Space, without God`s Love or Light. All God wants from us now " Repent," change our selfish and unloving character INTO: Love God with all our beings, and love our neighbour as ourselves. God will see and notice our sincere efforts to love our neighbour, ( all others, friends and not friends) and approve and bless us. God will also know how we show our love, and become the children/sons and daughters who love like God wants us to love. I say this with love, Mike. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. Jesus also told us: " On the two Commandments to Love God and our neighbour, hang all the Law and the Prophets. Love changes all we say or do, and we are on Earth to learn to become worthy children of our Great and Glorious Heavenly Father.

Emmy, are you a Mormon?

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

See the book of Job.

Another good point. I'm just repeating what pastors told me my whole life. Even when I was a christian, whenever I heard "God can't be in the presence of sinfulness" I always thought "yeah he can...he does it all the time"

Who says anything about God seeking balance? This is a far eastern philosophy, that came after these principles had already been established.

Again, I'm just going by the doctrines of protestant churches in America. This is what they teach. God is love and He REALLY wants you to go to heaven. But if you don't choose Him then he CAN'T let you in no matter how bad he REALLY wants you to be there. If that is the way it is, and his hands are just tied, why wouldn't he just annihilate us at death? That would be Just AND Merciful. But the God of the Bible isn't anything like what most churches in America say He is.

Heaven would be Hell to all of those who did not Choose to be with God, and were forced to be there.

I agree with you there.

To Choose not to Go to Hell, means one follows the mandates followed in scripture. It does not mean one simply "wishes" not to goto Hell. You Indeed Choose to goto Hell. You just "wish" God did not hold you accountable to what you have chosen.

This is like saying "I choose not to have a heart attack" but you are refusing to change your diet of Baconators and fried chicken. In reality you only "wish" that you did not have a heart attack. Your "choice" is made evident by your actions.

I know. My question is not "Why don't I get to go to heaven?" It's "Why does the separation from God have to involve fire, brimstone, and gnashing of teeth?" Do you remember what it was like before you were born? Neither do I. Why can't death for non-believers be like that? That would be merciful and just. We don't get the reward of heaven but we also don't get ETERNAL TORTURE for a finite transgression.

Perhaps it is you who have insight that God doesn't. Do you know for a fact this is possible?(Our souls destruction)

God can do anything. (Well anything except sin or things that are self-contradictory) He created our souls, why couldn't he destroy them?

Do you know for a fact that this is not our fate?

We know of Hell through scripture. We also know that scripture does it's best to describe it as a really really bad place, somewhere no one wants to go. But most of our "doctrines" of Hell come out of the medieval church and are at best loosely based in the bible. If I were you and were concerned with Hell I would look less to medieval art and the gospels of man, and more to what the bible says.

Yes I know that hell in the Bible isn't like what the common conception of hell is. In fact in ancient Judaism, the non believers ARE annihilated after death. In fact some believed that everyone including followers of God are annihilated.

As I said your "theology" seems to be based in a fairly elementary understanding of a medieval doctrine. Perhaps it is time to open up your bible again.

I'm going with what the majority of churches teach in America, which I already know isn't really based on the Bible. But it's what I was told and it's what I assume most members of this forum believe.

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

Yeah, "why do people go to Hell for not accepting God's love" sounds exactly like somebody with a firm grasp of Christian theology would say.

I understand it just fine. I just think it's stupid. It's hateful, vengeful, and evil. NOT the actions of a loving and merciful God....that is, if any of it were real. Which it's not.

 

[Traveller and Wiley]

I understand it just fine. I just think it's stupid. It's hateful, vengeful, and evil. NOT the actions of a loving and merciful God....that is, if any of it were real. Which it's not.

That's my point. That isn't why people who go to Hell at all. Anybody with any understanding of the Gospel knows this.

 

[sabercroft]

The question should be why is Hell eternal torture.

Hell is the separation of the creation from the creator. What makes hell torturous, is when we go before God at our judgment all of the things that are veiled from us in this life, will be revealed. Like the nature and depth of the Love God offers us, His eternal plans for us, a more complete knowledge and spiritual maturity of all we will never be apart of. We will go from the highest high (Getting to experience what we were created for) to the literal depths of Hell, in a moment. Where their is a great collection of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We are members of creation like it or not, as such we have been designed to want to be apart of the rest of creation (That is why so many of you want to goto Heaven but just don't want anything to do with God.) Being separated from creation is what makes Hell torturous.

So why does God force accountability on our decision? why is that accountability "Hell?"

Because Hell is the absents of God and any part of creation. It is described as the Void or the Pit. This is the only place one can go to be away from God. Only a unrighteous God would force someone into His presents who spent a life time putting distance between themselves and Him. So Fear not! God is a respecter of your final decisions. He will not drag anyone kicking and screaming into Heaven.

Could you please give a more complete description of Hell? Thanks.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Traveller and Wiley. No, I am not a Mormon, I am a Salvationist, a soldier for Christ. But why do you ask? Are Mormons as God wants us to be? I did`nt even know that they were Christians. Or are you teasing me?? As to the question: " Why is hell even necessary? God did not make hell, God is Love, and Satan runs away from Love, he will never be found where love is to be found. Why is hell necessary? only as the abode of Satan and his evil and loveless followers. God gave us loving advice, ( His Commandments) and there is also God`s eternal Law of Justice. Even the World knows it and is aware of it. " What we sow we will reap," and Christians will recognise it as our Heavenly Father`s fair and just way to teach us. Follow God`s loving advice and we will have God`s Blessings, ignore, or even go against God`s loving advice to us, we will, at the right time, have just and fair consequences. Our God loves us, and wants us back again, to live with for eternity, and perfect Love will be the Key to God`s Kingdom. I say this with love, Traveller. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

That's my point. That isn't why people who go to Hell at all. Anybody with any understanding of the Gospel knows this.

I know what you're trying to say. You're saying we send ourselves to hell through our choices. I'm saying that's stupid. My choice is to not believe what there is no reason to believe. In other words, I choose to not have faith. The Bible says that faith is the evidence of things hoped for, and the belief in things not seen. In other words, faith is believing in something you really want to be true even though there is no evidence for it. Because I care about whether my view of the world accurately reflects reality, I choose to believe things for which there is evidence (i.e. a reason to believe)

I am not rejecting God, I'm saying God hasn't demonstrated himself to me and neither have any of his followers. I lack belief in gods until I see evidence. But for the God of the Bible, I have a positive belief that he is not real. I will be happy to change my mind if I am ever presented with a reason to believe.

For the sin of using the reason and senses that God gave me, for the sin of NOT seeing evidence of his existence, I am to be punished eternally in agonizing hellfire (according to some denominations)

That is GOD'S choice, not mine. I understand that by your theology, I am not worthy of heaven --well actually no one is, but i have not accepted the free gift of eternal life-- but does that mean I should be tortured for a trillion trillion trillion years? And then again? And again? And again? It's not necessary to satisfy justice. In fact it is UNJUST, spiteful, jealous, and evil.

Theologies that say that unbelievers are thrown into the lake of fire and consumed, or cease to exist in some other way are much more palatable to me. But I still don't believe because there's no reason to.

 

[razeontherock]

The OP has a simple answer: hell is necessary to contain satan and all evil, away from those that love G-d and are called according to His purpose.

Glorifying G-d would be making sure no one else winds up in hell.

People can be stubborn about that!

 

[razeontherock]

I'm saying that's stupid. My choice is to not believe what there is no reason to believe. In other words, I choose to not have faith. The Bible says that faith is the evidence of things hoped for, and the belief in things not seen. In other words, faith is believing in something you really want to be true even though there is no evidence for it.

No Mike. What I bolded is a tautology. Either you never looked deeper, or are now so far gone you cannot understand. What we cannot do is blame others for our failings. I don't say this to be harsh, but to point out the reality you claim to seek.

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

No Mike. What I bolded is a tautology. Either you never looked deeper, or are now so far gone you cannot understand. What we cannot do is blame others for our failings. I don't say this to be harsh, but to point out the reality you claim to seek.

No, I really do get it. The actual wording of the verse is this: "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

Implying that faith comes from God and not something we have on our own. Am I close?

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

The OP has a simple answer: hell is necessary to contain satan and all evil, away from those that love G-d and are called according to His purpose.

Glorifying G-d would be making sure no one else winds up in hell.

People can be stubborn about that!

Are you one of those Christians that believe that God won't stop until literally everyone is saved? Because that is more palatable to me too. But then so is Valhalla and I don't actually believe in that either. *glances up at the text under my user name* er...I mean...I totally believe in Valhalla.